Why the plant is late?

[agapit]

To clarify this post I need to offer a definition of a drop as I represented it in this post. The drop is a freefall drop of the tip of the pole into the box. The lowering of the pole or holding it parallel to the ground as some responses noted do not pass the definition of freefall drops.

Now the original post.

It is obvious that with current poles and grips, anything short of the free pole drop is disadvantageous for achieving maximum speeds at the take-off.

The number one cause of being late and therefore "under" is the late beginning of the drop of the pole into the box.

The perfect plant ends when:

1. pole tip touches the bottom of the box
at the same time as
2. left foot first touches the ground (in front of center of gravity of the vaulter)
at the same time as
3. left arm is extended at the most possible distance from the vaulter's chest (keeping shoulders perpendicular to the runway)
at the same time as
4. right arm is half bent in front of the forehead (elbow facing to the side)

After that free take-off begins. This gives enough room to complete the jump (move center of gravity past the left foot plane).

The pole tip is in the high position during the run up. Attempts to accelerate the descend of the pole into the box (beyond normal gravity force) are proven unsuccessful and are very hard to perform. Therefore, the fastest way the pole tip gets into the box is if it freefalls. Any other way is slower.

In order to complete freefall the pole needs to begin the descent at around six steps (depending on the grip height and vaulter speed). Bubka described this (effect) as a six-step plant, however, the detailed explanation of this have never been shown until now and the six-step plant was very confusing concept for vaulters.

Here is the simple truth. If a vaulter begins the free pole drop later than it is necessary for it to descent into the box the plant would be late or the vaulter would have to slow down to allow for more pole drop time.

Coaches, when your vaulter is under and adjustments of the run up length do not mediate this, you should look at the time when the pole begins to drop and attempt to begin the drop earlier.

How about them apples?

[dj]

petrov

We have observed that this part of the approach for the world's top vaulters is 17m-17.5m (measured from the back of the box) and is covered in six strides.

Without changing the running velocity and running position, the vaulter begins the drop five to six strides before the plant. this is done with a pulling and rotation (initial) of the right hand.

dj

[vault3rb0y]

thats exactly the way i have been taught. Finally!!

And to your final sentence, I like them apples. I like them very much you gangsta .

[vault3rb0y]

Although i would add, that most pole drops, at least in American High Schoolers, seem to drop too EARLY. In fact, some run with the pole parallel to the ground until their plant, obviously slowing them down and hunching them forward. I only know of 3 or 4 high school vaulters that forces the pole into the box. I am guilty of letting it drop too late. Depending on the run, i usually let my drop begin 8-10 strides out, controlling it until my last 3, in which my hands begin coming up.

[agapit]

petrov

We have observed that this part of the approach for the world's top vaulters is 17m-17.5m (measured from the back of the box) and is covered in six strides.

Without changing the running velocity and running position, the vaulter begins the drop five to six strides before the plant. this is done with a pulling and rotation (initial) of the right hand.

dj

Great dj.

Did you read his explanation for the drop and why it should begin 6 steps away? Why not to begin it say at 3 or 8 steps away. Does petrov explain this in the article?

I am very familiar with his writing. I actually translated parts of his book for Reno summit in 1992.

[agapit]

Although i would add, that most pole drops, at least in American High Schoolers, seem to drop too EARLY. In fact, some run with the pole parallel to the ground until their plant, obviously slowing them down and hunching them forward. I only know of 3 or 4 high school vaulters that forces the pole into the box. I am guilty of letting it drop too late. Depending on the run, i usually let my drop begin 8-10 strides out, controlling it until my last 3, in which my hands begin coming up.

Well with your pole you can do it, but when you get to 16'4"+ grips it would be much harder to stretch the gradual lowering of the pole over 8-10 steps.

[PVstudent]

Agapit, I would like you to clarify point 3 of your description of the plant. Should the left arm (for a right handed vaulter) be extended as far as possible from the vaulter's body whilst the shouldes are kept square?

I think what you describe here is actually a major plant error and will subsequently cause the hips to be driven forward in advance of the take-off foot placement before the toe leaves the ground in the "free take-off".

What you suggest, I contend, would merely exagerate the effects of a late plant!

I understand the Petrov concept of the plant to be completed by the lower arm being slightly flexed at the elbow and abducted laterally (wrist higher than the elbow) whilst the left hand is moved upwards and slightly forward in synchronization with the motion of the right (top hand) as the take - off foot makes initial touch down contact. When the the take-off foot contacts the ground, both hands I believe, should continue in their upward direction relative to the vaulter throughout. When the vaulter is in the "toe tip" part of the take-off, the pole initially contacts the back of the box and subsequently the left arm is driven into shoulder flexion by the the instaneous shock impulse through the pole.

Would you please clarify what advantage, if any, the left arm action you describe in point 3 gives to a vaulter. Observation of Petrov trained athlete's would suggest that this is not what they attempt to achieve in the plant action.

[vault3rb0y]

Well with your pole you can do it, but when you get to 16'4"+ grips it would be much harder to stretch the gradual lowering of the pole over 8-10 steps.

Yea thats exactly what ive been told. Ive been told that basically, i should drop the pole in a way that will allow me to accellerate my last strides as much as possible. That only comes by having not pressure on your bottom hand to hold the pole up, thus dropping it naturally.

[agapit]

Agapit, I would like you to clarify point 3 of your description of the plant. Should the left arm (for a right handed vaulter) be extended as far as possible from the vaulter's body whilst the shouldes are kept square?

I think what you describe here is actually a major plant error and will subsequently cause the hips to be driven forward in advance of the take-off foot placement before the toe leaves the ground in the "free take-off".

What you suggest, I contend, would merely exagerate the effects of a late plant!

I understand the Petrov concept of the plant to be completed by the lower arm being slightly flexed at the elbow and abducted laterally (wrist higher than the elbow) whilst the left hand is moved upwards and slightly forward in synchronization with the motion of the right (top hand) as the take - off foot makes initial touch down contact. When the the take-off foot contacts the ground, both hands I believe, should continue in their upward direction relative to the vaulter throughout. When the vaulter is in the "toe tip" part of the take-off, the pole initially contacts the back of the box and subsequently the left arm is driven into shoulder flexion by the the instaneous shock impulse through the pole.

Would you please clarify what advantage, if any, the left arm action you describe in point 3 gives to a vaulter. Observation of Petrov trained athlete's would suggest that this is not what they attempt to achieve in the plant action.

I will anser this question soon, when I have a minute. I would suggest for your sake don't come out and swing your baseball bet at a tank.

Everything I say not only make sense it was proven with real athletes. I will not even count myself, but I used the plan I have described.

[Robert schmitt]

Although i would add, that most pole drops, at least in American High Schoolers, seem to drop too EARLY. In fact, some run with the pole parallel to the ground until their plant, obviously slowing them down and hunching them forward. I only know of 3 or 4 high school vaulters that forces the pole into the box. I am guilty of letting it drop too late. Depending on the run, i usually let my drop begin 8-10 strides out, controlling it until my last 3, in which my hands begin coming up.

I see this also in HS athletes and it is also my biggest problem. And I'm not in HS by a long shot. I believe that's why I can vault higher from 9 steps 60' than I can from 11 or 12 steps. also I'm using relativly large and heavy short poles 14'3" 195- 205 altius's which amplify the problem.

[agapit]

Agapit, I would like you to clarify point 3 of your description of the plant. Should the left arm (for a right handed vaulter) be extended as far as possible from the vaulter's body whilst the shouldes are kept square?

I think what you describe here is actually a major plant error and will subsequently cause the hips to be driven forward in advance of the take-off foot placement before the toe leaves the ground in the "free take-off".

Thank you for your comment it helps to clarify the subject.

In Manifesto, I defined plant purpose as to put pole in the right position for a free take-off. I think you are describing the post-plant action, where center of gravity moves past the take-off foot plane into the tip of the toe position.

The plant (in my world) ends as soon as the foot touches the ground. Where your pole is at that time is crucial. It must be far enough from your body in order to have room to perform a free take-off. The jump begins after foot touches the ground. Let’s not mix the two.

In this post I have described the reason that in vast majority of cases the pole never makes to the position from which the free take-off could be performed. I suggest the reason for that is the delayed beginning of the pole drop. Naturally untrained athlete wants to do a one-step drop. It takes time and directed effort to move the beginning of the plant away from the one step drop. Even many elite athletes have this issue more or less pronounced.

All I am trying to say that the pole must have enough time to freefall. (freefall is the fastest and most economical way to descend the pole into the box) The elite vaulters usually cover last six steps in 1.3 sec +/-, so the drop has to begin at around 6 steps. If you begin it at four steps, the pole tip must have been already lowered and strain on the left arm, abs, back already occurring or the pole would not have enough time to get in the box for the plant completion.

Bubka’s plant was late, in my estimate, about 30% of the time. The least successful plants occurred when his left arm did not extend far enough for him to complete the free-take-off. I do not think this was clearly identified by his team or maybe they did not have success in combating it despite realizing the issue.

I was a big fan during the Barcelona Games, but after seeing the qualifying round I have predicted that he would have a difficult time and I even bet with all Australian vaulter that I was working with at the time that he probably will no height. The only reason for my prediction was the fact that he was overpowering the run and his drop time was late because of that. In my experience it is very difficult to correct this “death spiralâ€Â

[highhopes]

Wow I didn’t know there was a set spot to start the pole drop. I learned to start mine at six steps because it feels more natural. Everyone else at my school starts theirs way too early and you can see they don’t get as much speed because of it.