Bemiller/Mack Model

[carryabigstick]

It seems to me that these various arguments are so abstract that nothing is really gained by trying to defend one "model" versus the other. I believe that there are a few CONCRETE truths to the vault which cannot be debated by anyone due to physics. Now the way that you "describe" them may differ, but the ultimate goals are one in the same. Can anyone argue these basic concepts?
1. Have an efficient and accelerating approach run with proper pole carry and consistent early pole drop
2. Have a world class penultimate stride/set-up with a powerful drive of the arms which are intending to maximize pole angle and pole speed while minimizing braking or blocking forces
3. Minimize shock at impact and create early pole speed wile completing the take-off completely in an angle similar to a triple jumper (18 deg.)
4. Create good pre-tension to allow for positive and gymastic-like stretch reflex of the entire body from the jump-follow-through motion to an aggresive swinging and application of energy into the pole.
5. An aggressive body rotation through the shoulders which is generated by an intense aggresiveness of the arms and swing of the body and leg
6. A tight and explosive finish moving as fast a possible while not waiting of the pole but performing the entire movement while trying to accelerate to the finish.

I WOULD ARGUE THAT MANY OF THE TOP COACHES IN U.S. ARE EASILY AWARE OF THE "SO-CALLED" BUBKA MODEL. MAYBE WITHOUT THE EUROPEAN JARGONS.

THESE 4 ACTIONS MUST OCCUR SEAMLESSLY WHILE THE ARMS WORK THE ENTIRE TIME: ARCH (JUMP/TAKE-OFF) - HOLLOW (MID-JUMP) - ARCH (BODY EXTENSION/COMPLETION OF ARM PULL) - HOLLOW (BAR CLEARANCE) .....NO PASSIVE PHASES. SEEMS FAIRLY SIMPLE TO ME.

Has an great American athlete/vaulter ever been 100% devoted to the Bubka model. The only one I know of is Lawrence Johnson. I believe he went that route in about 1997 through the end of his career. He had some great jumps during that time but never again achieved the height he cleared under the coaching of his college coach (ie the bemiller/mack model). What other americans have adapted that model.

[VTechVaulter]

he also broke his leg in a motorcycle accident after college, could partially explain why he never jumped quite as high again

[agapit]

he also broke his leg in a motorcycle accident after college, could partially explain why he never jumped quite as high again

He also had a very serious (almost carrier ending) take-off ankle reconstruction while in college. That prevented him from being able to do any serious plyometrics after that. This is partially why at times he looks flat at the take-off.

[trackpole]

After reading all of this info, my question is this. Lets say that Mack had jumped 6.15 and had 20, 30, etc. jumps over 6m, who's model would become superior. This is obviously hypothetical because for this to take place bigger poles and grips would happen, runway speed, etc. But really if someone breaks the WR and starts to dominate the event, then who do people try to model.

[agapit]

After reading all of this info, my question is this. Lets say that Mack had jumped 6.15 and had 20, 30, etc. jumps over 6m, who's model would become superior. This is obviously hypothetical because for this to take place bigger poles and grips would happen, runway speed, etc. But really if someone breaks the WR and starts to dominate the event, then who do people try to model.

I know very intimately Mack's vault. In my opinion the reason he did not jump WR 20-30 times because of some errors that prevented him from doing so. I believe, as an athlete he has sufficient speed and strength to jump WR.

I do not know if they measured his speed on 6.01 but I would estimate it was 9.4-9.6 not much slower than WR holder in real conditions. He was feeling very comfortably at that time and I believe would have been able to run with that speed without problem.

Now also I don’t know who you are, but if you had jump WR 30 times I would seriously consider your model for a review. However, it would not qualify you automatically because who knows maybe you are a superman who can run 10.4 m/s and long jump 28 ft. I would expect for someone like that to jump 6.40-6.50m

Regards.

P.S. Put all your experience and brainpower together and choose whom you are going to model.

[baggettpv]

I think the real issue is not actually Model Definition but the aspect of teaching the Model..Here in the US can we have a process to teach a model from beginning to end of an athletes career?

rick Baggett
WSTC LLC

[Tim McMichael]

It’s almost impossible here. Our sports system is decentralized and dependant on the educational system. An athlete changes coaches from high school to college, and by that time it is often too late to change anything significant. Spending a year learning a new model will cost a college athlete their scholarship. It’s a tough situation, and I’m sure we all know of athletes whose careers have been ruined by attending a college where the coach’s ideas and attitudes did not match what the kid needed.

[vault3rb0y]

Thats why its so valueable to have the quality high school coaches of all you guys on here. Just go to a state meet anywhere in the country, and it doesnt matter how high an individual is jumping, you can tell who is being coached in a way that will allow them to keep progressing, and who might just have some raw talent to be able to jump 15' with minimal coaching. College coaches see that too, and therefore might choose to give a scholarship to the 15' vaulter doing things great, as opposed to the 16' vaulter with pure speed and terrible technique. You talk about a decentralized and dependant vaulter education system, and thats so true. I just wish there were a way coaches like all of you on here who help high school kids could somehow be "certified", so to speak, and be recognized as extremely knowledgeable sources. That way kids across the country could have a list of the best coaches in their state, and not have to go by word of mouth. Just my thoughts .

[agapit]

I WOULD ARGUE THAT MANY OF THE TOP COACHES IN U.S. ARE EASILY AWARE OF THE "SO-CALLED" BUBKA MODEL. MAYBE WITHOUT THE EUROPEAN JARGONS.

THESE 4 ACTIONS MUST OCCUR SEAMLESSLY WHILE THE ARMS WORK THE ENTIRE TIME: ARCH (JUMP/TAKE-OFF) - HOLLOW (MID-JUMP) - ARCH (BODY EXTENSION/COMPLETION OF ARM PULL) - HOLLOW (BAR CLEARANCE) .....NO PASSIVE PHASES. SEEMS FAIRLY SIMPLE TO ME.

Has an great American athlete/vaulter ever been 100% devoted to the Bubka model. The only one I know of is Lawrence Johnson. I believe he went that route in about 1997 through the end of his career. He had some great jumps during that time but never again achieved the height he cleared under the coaching of his college coach (ie the bemiller/mack model). What other americans have adapted that model.

I have heard once coach said to an athlete: “you are not quite over the bar you should try a little harderâ€Â

[carryabigstick]

I think that Lawrence had a wonderful career in college and afterwards. It seemed to me that he was on track to jump very very high under the coaching of agapit. I think the injuries probably kept him from being a 6m+ vaulter. I do think that you cannot take away the success he had in college though. Yes, he could apparently jump 5.80 in his sleep with or without a coach. But in college he seemed to have the entire "holistic" balance going for him in 1996. health, confidence, vaulting prowess, and a good support system. Sometimes its more than just a model. It is the total package of things. Just seems interesting that so called Bemiller model or preparation method or whatever you want to call led to the last 3 olympic trials winners one way or the other. I would be interested to see what one of bemillers other great vaulter (tim mack) has to say about the whole subject. I also wonder if they didn't try to implement some of the "bubka" model. ??

[agapit]

I think that Lawrence had a wonderful career in college and afterwards. It seemed to me that he was on track to jump very very high under the coaching of agapit. he improved his technique quite a bit. his run did seem to go to crap after college. probably more due to injuries. I think the injuries probably kept him from being a 6m+ vaulter. I do think that you cannot take away the success he had in college though. Yes, he could apparently jump 5.80 in his sleep with or without a coach. But in college he seemed to have the entire "holistic" balance going for him in 1996. health, confidence, vaulting prowess, and a good support system. Sometimes its more than just a model. It is the total package of things. Just seems interesting that so called Bemiller model or preparation method or whatever you want to call led to the last 3 olympic trials winners one way or the other. I would be interested to see what one of bemillers other great vaulter (tim mack) has to say about the whole subject. I also wonder if they didn't try to implement some of the "bubka" model. ??

I wonder if Lawrence had a couch in Atlanta? And if not, why? So, to my knowledge it is one (maybe 1 & 1/2) Olympic trial in 2004 not three. Just to set the record straight.

Just a holistic answer.

P.S. I wonder which model should take a credit for Wordls indoor Silver 97*, Six US Champs 2x1997 + 2x2000, +2x2001, Olympic Silver 2000, Worlds Indoor Gold 2001, American Indoor Record 2001?

What happened in 1998, 1999?

Was the ballance holistic in 1997, 2000, 2001?

* First American Medal in International Comps since 1987.

LOL.

[dj]

I wonder if Lawrence had a couch in Atlanta? And if not, why?

why wonder???

it was because Lawerence's "agent" didn't want bemiller involed or paid.

that apparently was Lawerences call...

dj