High School Safety – Weight vs Pole Ratings

[SKOT]

[quote="Tom Wilson"]Proposed simple standard for discussion/ consideration. I think it would enhance safety.

“Coaches may mark a reduced maximum pole grip height for any vaulter using a pole rated lower than the vaulter’s weight. Marking shall be with contrasting colored athletic tape to easily standout versus the pole’s grip tape. No added mark is to be required for poles at or above the vaulter’s weight. Marking shall be based on 3â€Â

[Tom Wilson]

Thanks for comments.

On the first comment. If the increase in pole stiffness rating varies from .9 lbs/inch to 5.9 lbs/inch, the concept still works, just change the formula. For simplicity the rule could take the conservative end of the range and use 1 pound per inch. Then a ruler becomes the template and it would be simple to implement rule everywhere since a tape measure is virtually always present at vaulting. Granted we would not be giving a vaulter all the increased rating that might be valid for lowered grip but it is greater than the 0 lbs/inch the current rule allows.

On the second comment, experience tells me we’re not putting the athlete at risk. So far we have not had a post that someone has not ever jumped on a pole below their weight. So there is a base of experience jumping on poles below the vaulter’s weight. Doesn’t the stress or strain on an elastic piece have to do with force and deflection. For a given force, the pole material would deflect (bend) less if held lower due to its increased stiffness. Less deflection, less failure risk? With a heavier vaulter holding lower, we might have increased force (depends upon speed and plant/takeoff skill). We do have increased stiffness. I suspect we are not pushing the limits with the conditions the rule change would set up especially if we use a 1 pound/ inch formula instead of the usually stated 10 pounds per 6 inches.

Please keep in mind I realize if we had the perfect weight rated poles in each length for every vaulter as they transition through poles it would be ideal. That is not real world at most schools. My goal remains making it safer for vaulters using the resources typically on hand. I think the posts about other limits in society having somewhat arbitrary limits, ie 71 mph is speeding and risks a ticket but 70 doesn’t are great points. I am just pushing for a different “lawâ€Â

[Rhino]

Here's my last comment. I am not in favor or Tom's rule change. I am in favor or elimination of the rule. We vaulted safely for years without the rule and some vault dangerously with the rule to this day. Let people regulate themselves!

[strato]

ESSX is right, if kids are tought to jump correctly the rule would not be needed. As far as self regulation, we all had our chance

[Bruce Caldwell]

wow please go back and read what I said again please!

On the first comment. If the increase in pole stiffness rating varies from .9 lbs/inch to 5.9 lbs/inch, the concept still works, just change the formula. For simplicity the rule could take the conservative end of the range and use 1 pound per inch. Then a ruler becomes the template and it would be simple to implement rule everywhere since a tape measure is virtually always present at vaulting. Granted we would not be giving a vaulter all the increased rating that might be valid for lowered grip but it is greater than the 0 lbs/inch the current rule allows.

1. If you change the properties of a vaulting pole just so it will be 1lbs per inch all the way down a pole then it will not be a vaulting pole it then would be a flag pole or if done correctly a training pole not suitable for competition vaulting!

2. The rule if abolished would still be a rule or a condition of the manufacturer to use the pole and sustain minimum risks of breakage and or improvement in technique.

3.Before the rule change there was a tremendous amount of broken poles in the field and many people got hurt from this as well as people blowing out the back of the landing system as then the pits were shallower. Even with pit as long as they are today one could jump off the back of a pit with too soft of a pole.

4. Until the PV community stops trying to re-invent the conditions of how to use a vaulting pole and decides to follow the directions of the use to insure safety and ALSO PROPER TECHNIQUE. We will still have poor performances and bad development of technique.

If you wish to save money on poles buy one too stiff for you to bend, use it to develop a swing technique so when you decide to embrace the rules and learn to jump well you can then maintain decent technique while saving money.
The Europeans have done this for 30 years as it is real expensive to buy a pole there add $200 freight and $100 duty to USA Costs. I find the similarity to this and them jumping better than Americans hand in hand

[Tom Wilson]

I’ll take a while off here and see what others have to say, if anything. No one is saying to redesign poles. I don’t see where the thought that we were looking for redesigned poles came from??? Please, recall original purpose of post topic. Original topic was to consider a rule change to possibly increase safety for young vaulters before they develop great technique for schools that do not have a wide inventory of poles and where athletes are holding low on a pole. Buying new poles, while that would be great, is outside of the original question. Those that say buy more poles I read as don’t change the rule. Considerations for already strong vaulters is outside of the original question. Those that say vaulters with good technique don’t need a rule change I surely read (and agree don’t need a rule change) as don’t change the rule. Those that say the have jumped safely on a pole below their weight but don’t want a rule change somewhat frustrate me but that is okay. I am curious that no one has posted they have not ever jumped on a pole under their weight. Makes me realize we do have the honest community I thought we had. Those that say eliminate the rule entirely at least that might help steer the issue to that or something like my ideas earlier.

Better teaching and coaching may well be an answer to the question on the side of coach better and don’t change rules. I’ll accept that I am not a great coach but do have a goal of teaching proper/great technique but a reality of not pulling that off to an elite level. I do have young athletes that place in local meets and are certainly learning a love for the sport and add they have been kept safe. I repeat the only time I fear injury for them is when we have to put them on a pole that has an effective grip height stiffness way over what corresponds to their weight. Landing short or stalling in that situation is what prompted my original post. I do not want to see a rule where anything goes as some would do errant things and get hurt. My proposed change is worded to allow a mild acknowledgement lower grips on a heavy pole is not by definition unsafe.

Take care everyone and thanks for the input and feedback.

[BethelPV]

I have never jumped on a pole less than my weight... I actually have never jumped on a pole closer than 5 lbs to my weight, and that is because my coach specifically made it to where I did not need too by teaching me technique on shorter poles before going to longer poles.

My rule of thumb is if you cannot jump on a pole at or above your weight, you are trying to get on too long of a pole. You need to be able to jump on a pole at least 15 lbs over your weight before you even consider moving up 6" in length of pole... thats just my opinion. If you want to get the best of your vaulter, you wouldn't put them on a smaller pole than their weight because the return of the pole will not benefit. You do not see any decent high schoolers (14 or higher), college (15-9 or higher) or elites (17-6 or higher) on poles less than 10 lbs above their weight... Why would that be? Because they have proper technique and take the proper steps in moving up poles!!

Just my 2 cents...

[Bruce Caldwell]

You just released the best ignored secret to pole vaulting higher safer
Never move to a longer pole until
1. You are 15lbs over your weight on the current pole.
2. And you are jumping over your hand grip by 12" or more.

[Rhino]

The Europeans have done this for 30 years as it is real expensive to buy a pole there add $200 freight and $100 duty to USA Costs. I find the similarity to this and them jumping better than Americans hand in hand

I never suggested in this thread that elite vaulters should start using a garden hose to vault on. I will concede that it is an absolute that elite vaulters can vault better on poles rated at least at their bodyweights!

I was in Europe for six years and I didn't see near the depth of vaulters that we have in USA. I competed on a village track team and the lack of poles doesn't make the average vaulter a bit better than our own. The vaulters I am suggesting would benefit from relaxing the rule will likely never vault beyond high school and not be in the upper rungs of high school competition. They are still valuable members of the team (as are 40' shot putters) and could safely participate without jumping on the Maypole.

[Bruce Caldwell]

Any vaulter there would buy a pole 10-15 lbs over their weight to grow into it. They would stiff pole till they got better to bend the pole.
It is a normal practice due to availability, so not just for the elite. However some that told me turned out to be elite vaulter 4 years later.
Bruce
This thread stimulated a test on this thread feel free to see the results!
http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/vie ... highlight=

[highhopes]

I have never jumped on a pole rated less the my body weight. The first pole I ever bent was 15 lbs. over my body weight and I was just strait poling. Then it just bent.

[2-15-46]

Lets just go back to the aluminum and swedish steel pole and everyone will have to learn how to vault and no more hassel:))