Bemiller/Mack Model

[Tim McMichael]

[quote]George moore/browning had to present it as “synthic bambooâ€Â

[kwhit3]

Wasn't there a post on this board that said that Joe Dial had the largest pushoff ever?

Since this discussion has evolved into who could push off the most shouldn't he be included in the discussion?

Just a question.

[JKSvault]

you stated Tim put less energy in the system and recieved more back but how do you actually know how much energy Tim put in and recieved?

KE can be found by taking ½ mv^2. According to the chart, Bubka and Mack had the same mass. Bubka, however, had more velocity into the plant which leads one to believe that more KE was potentially put into the system from Bubka.

I know he cleared 6.01 and held 5m and the push was 121cm but the bar height has nothing to do with the actual energy system in/out.

Bar height is needed in order to be able to figure out pushoff from the pole, for if there was no bar, one would have to “guesstimateâ€Â

[Tim McMichael]

Wasn't there a post on this board that said that Joe Dial had the largest pushoff ever?

Since this discussion has evolved into who could push off the most shouldn't he be included in the discussion?

Just a question.

He did, and I am working on a post along those lines for this thread. My manifesto explains some of the principles involved, but there is a lot more to be said. dj's discussion of shortening the pole chord definitely explicates a key concept of the technique necessary to push off a long way. He explains it with much more precision than I can, but I will try to add something to that aspect of this discussion as well.

[Tim McMichael]

[quote]Bar height is needed in order to be able to figure out pushoff from the pole, for if there was no bar, one would have to “guesstimateâ€Â

[captainfalcon43]

KE can be found by taking ½ mv^2. According to the chart, Bubka and Mack had the same mass. Bubka, however, had more velocity into the plant which leads one to believe that more KE was potentially put into the system from Bubka.

I don't think that this can work because the swing adds more energy to the system after the takeoff. It is more than just the takeoff and how high the vaulter can get with a push to calculate it. Somehow the vaulters force in the swing and the amount of energy leaked inbetween must be calculated. I don't see how this can be calculated except by looking at positions of the vaulters.

[gtc]

Are we taking Volzing into account on push off? I have personally seen Joe turn many 5.40 jumps into 5.70 jumps by holding the bar on!

[vaultman18]

This is the original Post:
[quote]After doing some research, I have come up with a point that I believe should be put out there for all to see. I’m sure some will disagree, but before disregarding this opinion, look at the 6m chart on PVP. By the numbers, I believe that Tim is technically a better vaulter than Bubka. I arrived at this by analyzing the numbers on the 6m chart. Holding 5.18m, Bubka achieved a push off of 117 cm. Tim on the other hand, achieved a push off of 121 cm (holding 5m). These 2 vaulters were identical in weight, but Bubka was approximately .44 m/sec. faster through the last 5m of the run.

Based on the fact that Tim was slower into the plant (and jumped on a smaller pole than Bubka), yet achieved a greater push off would merit a good argument in regards to who the best “technicalâ€Â

[Tim McMichael]

Are we taking Volzing into account on push off? I have personally seen Joe turn many 5.40 jumps into 5.70 jumps by holding the bar on!

Nope, no Volzing on that jump. One of the misconceptions about volzing is that it helped us jump higher. The truth is that you cannot hold on what you cannot also clear cleanly. Volzing was more of a help with consistency than anything else. It salvaged jumps when we took of under and were coming up short. It is impossible to hold the bar on unless you trap it against the standards with your body first. You can’t trap it against the standards unless you are coming down on it. Anything that you hit going up or flattening out will be off of the pegs before you can grab it. Joe and I were possibly the best ever at holding the bar on, and both of our PR’s are on jumps that we cleared cleanly. I am almost sad that it has become a lost art, and to this day I have to clench my left fist when I am coming down on a bar or I will get my hand on it and usually leave it up there.

[KYSEAMAN]

Mr. Tim what is the technique you use to hold it up there? How would you practice it?

[vaulter870]

its illegal now you get counted as a miss if you do that. correct me if i am wrong but i think that is a rule

[captainfalcon43]

I have heard it is illegal too