Atkins Attack Vault Technique

[AVC Coach]

I don't know what the big deal is. The bottom line is that thousands of kids across this country strive to make it without a coach. This guy has a plan, a facility and equipment and he's helping a lot of kids.

Sure the pictures don't do him much justice. I think there was a lack of judgement by whoever posted those pics and it obviously gave the wrong perception of what Atkins is teaching. I will say that I don't agree with using pictures of elite vaulters you have never actually coached for promotion purposes.

We all have beginners that, if photographed, would definitely raise questions as to what we are actually trying to accomplish. This is an incredible site with various opinions. It worries me to think that there is only one model, one way. We all don't drive Fords and this site is not called Petrov Power..... The Pole Vault Community Online!

[SlickVT]

Thats what I am talkin about.

THANK YOU.

[saraf]

I have been coached by lance a lot and am all over his website. I would put a huge post like Mr. Bing but feel like he did an excellent job. i have just looked at my older videos and i don't like them as much as my more recent ones but what ever. Lance and Adam Bing taught me everything i knew about pole vault until the end of my senior year. here is video of my High School PR and a video of Golden West

http://www.fliptography.com/adam/HS.html

I started jumping a little as a freshman, i was sick a lot of that year. I jumped 12'6" then with the assistance of lance i went to 14'6" the next year then 17'4.5" the following year. I lived at his house in the summers and the times i had to go to school i went there almost every weekend. Oh and by the way I am very impressed with bing that he named all those FBI alumni. I could maybe name 1/10th of those people. he is good. WAY TO BE BING!!

EDIT:
I also wanted to make a comment on Ms. Toto. I got to know her well since her sophomore summer. I would like to think that I am the reason that she went to UGA but thats besides the point. If ANYONE wants to say that Lance, Adam, and other FBI (fiber benders) coaches then they are ignorant. They need to go into Jewels basement and look at a picture of her jumping when she 1st started then look at a video of her when she stopped going to Lance. I have been with this girl progress from a 1st season vaulter to a nice road trip to Greensboro, NC for nationals. I am not taking credit for coaching her even though we talked just about every day about pole vault. Jewel went to lances a whole lot i can't even tell you how many times she has been there. But i can also say that she has been coached by other great coaches such as Mike from verticle assault. I think both coaches have a lot to offer even though there is bad blood between the two of them. All I really wanted to say is that I am a VERY close and important person in Julianne's live and I know that she would be considered a regular at Fiber benders and she is a regular at verticle assault. i know a lot of coaches thinks its bad to have more then one coach but that is the way it is.


Adam Sarafian - coached by Lance Atkins AT Golden West and Adidas Outdoor Nationals (and won them too!)

by the way, why so much argument can't we all be happy

[MightyMouse]

I can't take this anymore.

First of all, I was a coach there for a couple of summers, and those pictures are AWFUL. They do not reflect the vaulting that goes on there. They are pictures of beginners, and if anyone can show me a picture of a beginner who has perfect "Petrov" form, I would love to see it.

Secondly, there are alot of people on here talking about alot of things that they do not understand.

Here are the facts from someone that knows Lance and everyone else there very well.

1. People bash Lance because his coaching style is different. I will not argue with you that stamping his name on a plant is a little out there, but he is a good coach.
Saying this, I have to emphasize that he is a good coach to people that are dedicated to making changes and then changing those changes. Going to one camp and thinking that that sums up the coaching there is ridiculous. The greatest gains, and he makes this VERY CLEAR at the beginning of camp are people that continuously come to practice and change and improve.

2. Lance has coached FULL TIME 2 of the last 3 Golden West champions, and since the year that I graduated high school (2002) I know personally over 20+ different people that FULL TIME vaulted with Lance and then went on to win a state championship. At one point, Lance FULL TIME coached 5 straight NJ state champions. Cooleo, maybe you should have come back.

3. Slippery Rock is a joke. Any camp that teaches that your top hand should be 12 inches from your bottom hand is ridiculous. I'm sorry.

4. If someone could watch video of any one of his last state champions or numerous other state finalists and show me one still-frame that looks like one of those pictures, I will put on a dress and vault in it at a meet.

5. People may want to watch what they say on here, because Lance is not the only person that has stamped their name on something that Petrov developed (cough cough).

6. If anyone can find another camp this side of Arkansas that has averaged over 4.5 state champions in the last 5 years, please let me know.

7. Most of Lance's girls (That vault full time) have PR's higher than most guys replying to this post. Aw.......

8. If this post gets edited or removed for any reason, its is a travesty in that I have read 4 pages of bashing and this is one post of bashing back.

EDIT: Fiberbenders has never taught to lock your bottom arm out. That is just dumb.

Well seeing as it seems this post was made in a bit of a "heat of the moment thing" I think a few points need to be clarified

First I would also like to know why those pictures were used, and where they came from, because they are not on the website

2nd if you say there are "a lot of people on here talking about things they dont understand" Then please help me understand your greater grasp of whats under discussion.

3. Slippery Rock is a joke. Any camp that teaches that your top hand should be 12 inches from your bottom hand is ridiculous. I'm sorry."

That’s a very dirty side comment, and is an attack on the dedication and safety of Coach Hannay and his staff with no factual support.
And really its hypocritical because you agreed with AVC's comment that

It worries me to think that there is only one model

, so maybe a 12 inch grip *which is not exactly what they teach* could be legitimate. And how about the heights that he has helped vaulters from across the region make?

5. People may want to watch what they say on here, because Lance is not the only person that has stamped their name on something that Petrov developed (cough cough).

Coach Launder is pushing the Petrov model, not some deluxe Petrov model. And I havent really heard exactly how Lance has improved Petov's plant.

7. Most of Lance's girls (That vault full time) have PR's higher than most guys replying to this post. Aw.......

That is way out of line. There is no hierarchy of this forum based on height. If that were true I would take your advice on things over Coach Launder and Im sure that’s not true. Every person lends what they can to a discussion, and if a person make a false claim they should be proven wrong in a factual manner, not in a jock power play.

Im hoping that most of your post was made in a reactionary defense of your former coach (which in itself says positive things about his program) because I think there is legitimate discussion to be gotten out of this. Also Id love to hear more about the type of technique Lance is teaching.

[/quote]

[CLCPV04]

I think there was a lack of judgement by whoever posted those pics and it obviously gave the wrong perception of what Atkins is teaching.

The pictures were taken direct from the website.

Here are their actual links:

http://www.fiberbenders.com/images/pics/Vaulter.jpg
http://www.fiberbenders.com/images/pics/Girlvlt.jpg
http://www.fiberbenders.com/images/fbilog7c.jpg
http://www.fiberbenders.com/cortLOWres01.jpg
http://www.fiberbenders.com/images/Slid ... 03-819.JPG
http://www.fiberbenders.com/images/Slid ... 03-809.JPG

I have personally seen the "trademark" Atkins work. You can see it from a mile away its so distinct. Kids holding wide, beginning their run up holding the pole off to the left of their bodies, with their wide grips accentuated by an elbow held above the wrist like a flag bearer. Those pictures were a pretty accurate representation of what these kids look like at meets.

These kids are usually holding too high and overbending poles with a blocked bottom arm.

I know for a fact Natalie Gengel did not go to Lance for over a year before winning her NJ State title. I was there and Lance said it himself at the state meet "I think she looks bad, I havent seen her since last year at camp, she would be jumping 13 if she had only come to practice".

Meredith Mante went to one camp as a high schooler. How can you take credit for her state title when she doesnt even give it?

I too have seen some of these mysterious sprit poles with labels affixed at the very top.

I think this guy has had some success with a few athletes. I think he is an enthusiast for the sport. BUT I dont think he needs to be taking undue credit or using deceptive advertising. Play by the rules of the game. Dont say you are an advocate and improver of the "Petrov" model when you clearly aren't.

[saraf]

Im hoping that most of your post was made in a reactionary defense of your former coach (which in itself says positive things about his program) because I think there is legitimate discussion to be gotten out of this. Also Id love to hear more about the type of technique Lance is teaching.

it is tough to describe a whole coaches technique. If you REALLY want to know exactly how he coaches fly out to sinking springs, PA and I am sure he would LOVE to have a LONG discussion about pole vault. But it is difficult to explain more about the type of technique Lance is teaching.

[SlickVT]

I think there is one thing that I forgot to mention throughout this entire topic that I think makes a huge impact on the discussion:



I love Adam Sarafian.

[saraf]

I think there is one thing that I forgot to mention throughout this entire topic that I think makes a huge impact on the discussion:



I love Adam Sarafian.

how sweet. And he spelled my last name correct too!

PVP is so fun!! thanks Becca

[altius]

Quote. "It is tough to describe a whole coaches technique. If you REALLY want to know exactly how he coaches fly out to sinking springs, PA and I am sure he would LOVE to have a LONG discussion about pole vault. But it is difficult to explain more about the type of technique Lance is teaching. "Unquote.

An interesting point - so when and where did Coach Adkins meet with Vitali Petrov to have a LONG discussion about pole vault. If he has been able to improve on Vitali's methods - with the plant especially - surely he would have had to spend considerable time with him, in Formia for example, watching him work with his athletes, to decide what needed to be improved.
Has he discussed the improvements with Vitali?

I realise that it is difficult to describe complex actions in words but surely it would be possible for you to tell us - and preferably show us with video , as I asked before - exactly what improvements he has made to vault technique and EXACTLY what is meant by the "Adkins attack"?

[vaultmd]

Okay, so if Adam is unwilling or unable to explain the so-called "Atkins Attack," perhaps Bing (that my Dad's name!) will or can?

Is there really such a thing?

And why is it so much better than the approach in Altius' book?

[saraf]

Okay, so if Adam is unwilling or unable to explain the so-called "Atkins Attack," perhaps Bing (that my Dad's name!) will or can?

Is there really such a thing?

And why is it so much better than the approach in Altius' book?

I wouldn't call my self unwilling at all to explain it. I would say that I can't explain what and how he actually coaches. I only have 3 videos of my self and I provided a link before and here it is again. If Bing can explain something that would be good.

http://www.fliptography.com/adam/HS.html

[baggettpv]

I trained (was educated) under these 3 people in the length of my coaching career and have never heard anything said any differently than what Petrovs published model consists of. I worked with Andjei for a full 15 months (side by side) after he took a kid that I coached to 15'1" (as a junior) and he took him to 5.30...in one year. I took a year off from teaching to do that.
I have also been around hundreds of others who have their own way of looking at the bio mechanical ways of the event. I am sorry to say but I will go with the previous 3 to outline my believes. With other coaches that are having success I find they hold the same beliefs.
If anyone would like an opportunity to see these beliefs in work come to the NW Pole Vault Festival Feb 3rd and 4th. www.willamettestriders.com. Allan Launder and myself will be handling the PV Technique, Strength training with Terry Mathews and special gymnastics traing by myself and WSTC athletes.

Rick Baggett
WSTC LLC