Roll the pole or keep it straight?

[AVC Coach]

If you're pressing your arms forward through the vault, doesn't that work against what you are ultimately trying accomplish?

It just makes more since to me to keep pressure on the pole moving straight up, rolling it to the side as you swing.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "ripping down" with the shoulders. Could you elaborate?

[Mecham]

I think the pole will move to the side if we vault correctly, no matter what. I dont think it is about forcing the pole to do it.

[izzystikchik]

If you're pressing your arms forward through the vault, doesn't that work against what you are ultimately trying accomplish?

It just makes more since to me to keep pressure on the pole moving straight up, rolling it to the side as you swing.

Not sure I understand what you mean by "ripping down" with the shoulders. Could you elaborate?

yes, i can see your confusion with the word ripping down, it has many meanings and the meaning you've concluded upon is not the one i'm thinking of. The vault is very VERY similar to a gymnastic giant on the uneven bars, if you're not sure what that is, just google it and you'll see what i mean.

Anyway, ripping down means, putting pressure up and forward. If you put to much pressure up, you won't be able to invert in time due to that you will have a weak swing, it is imperative that you extend your arms up and roll the pole thru with your shoulders.
Gymnasts keep their arms fully extend and their chest is leading right before they swing up. If you look at their arms, you can see that they are pushing forward and slightly DOWN. Basically this redirects the momentum to make a swing..

[AVC Coach]

OK, that makes since. But keep in mind that while a gymnast does a giant swing on a high bar, uneven bars etc., they have their hands alligned just like a vaulter would have if the pole has already rolled.

[DBH027]

Giant circles and the proper plant, takeoff and swing in the vault have very little if anything in common...the only thing they might have in common is that timing is critical for success...a giant is about a proper cast and pumping of the hips through the bottom of the circle, the swing in the vault is about a proper whip of the trail leg from what is refered to as the inverted C position...I have never seen or heard of anyone coaching a rolling of the pole, coach a proper run, plant, takeoff, and swing...the pole moving out of the way will take care of itself....refer to the BTB posts, etc.

[AVC Coach]

I think most vaulters roll the pole without any conscious effort. When I have kids that are blocking out with the bottom arm and having trouble connecting with the pole, I find myself coaching this up out of neccessity.

It drives me nuts to see one of my vaulters kip out at the top because they never rolled their pole.

[izzystikchik]

I think most vaulters roll the pole without any conscious effort. When I have kids that are blocking out with the bottom arm and having trouble connecting with the pole, I find myself coaching this up out of neccessity.

It drives me nuts to see one of my vaulters kip out at the top because they never rolled their pole.

Very true, I agree with you there I think thats an issue that i come across in my vaults constantly

[METAL MAN]

At the plant the bottom arm should have the elbow mildly flexed and to the side so that it is even with the outside edge of the same side shoulder and the top arm pressed high. This will allow the pole to roll to the side clearing the way for a complete swing to vertical. This serves several purposes the main one being that the shoulders and hips are allowed to stay square at plant and "blocking out is prevented." The blocking out problem prevents a full swing up and usually causes the top arm to bend which raises the vaulters center of gravity on the pole making it more difficult to rotate to vertical. Remember, bending is created with the top arm while the purpose of the bottom arm is to keep the body positioned correctly on the pole. The body needs to remain rigid momentarily right after take off to create the reverse "C" and then the swing to vertical phase begins. Straight arming the lower arm is an impediment to this process.

My two cents..........check out Beginner to Bubka

[fx]

Rolling the pole helps me, at least it feels like it, to get in to the pit better. Also, it feels like I can get and stay closer to the pole by rolling. This might bring up summore debate but i think that rolling comes when you row. By row i mean moving your hands toward your shins during the swing up.