What is a late plant?

[agapit]

you see this all the time in HS athletes as they slow down to give themsleves time to plant the pole b/c the began lowering the pole too late.

this is a major reason for slowdown at the end of approach as you rightly noted.

[ladyvolspvcoach]

There are drills that the athlete can do to get a better sense of the "drop" timing of the pole. One is to do 7 left runs starting with the pole at about 80 degrees or so (left hand about 3" from your chest), and let go of the pole with the left hand as you start the run. Look at the timing of the drop relative to the number of steps traveled. You will also see that the pole wants to travel to the left (right handed) on it's own. You will after a while be able to control the alignment of the pole. It helps to get a feel for the role the arms and hands play in a pole drop while doing the approach.

[master]

From this perspective, I guess "dump planters," individuals who literally drop their pole from near vertical into the box and jump, must have the latest possible plant. Which is why no one should ever do that.

That does not follow. The measure of whether a plant is late is whether it was completed on time, not when it was started. If you carry your pole near vertical it will take longer to drop, so the drop must be started sooner than someone who carries it more horizontal. If they start it on time, it will not be late. There are advantages to carrying the pole more vertical and if you want to make use of those, you simply have to adjust when you start your drop in order to avoid a "late plant".

[Vault&Flip]

From this perspective, I guess "dump planters," individuals who literally drop their pole from near vertical into the box and jump, must have the latest possible plant. Which is why no one should ever do that.

That does not follow. The measure of whether a plant is late is whether it was completed on time, not when it was started. If you carry your pole near vertical it will take longer to drop, so the drop must be started sooner than someone who carries it more horizontal. If they start it on time, it will not be late. There are advantages to carrying the pole more vertical and if you want to make use of those, you simply have to adjust when you start your drop in order to avoid a "late plant".

A dump planter is one who still has the pole near vertical on his next to last step. Therefore, the plant is not started on time. I've seen very few individuals drop their pole from vertical 1 step out and not be late on the plant.

[master]

A dump planter is one who still has the pole near vertical on his next to last step. Therefore, the plant is not started on time. I've seen very few individuals drop their pole from vertical 1 step out and not be late on the plant.

Sorry, I had never heard that term used before. Obviously, it would not be possible to successfully drop your pole from vertical in one step in a timely manner.

[Vault&Flip]

Terminology is always a tricky issue, since we all use different phrases to describe the same thing...I've have seen a lot of high school kids who do this and occassionally they get lucky and hit a big jump....the majority of the time though, they get rejected or ripped off the ground or head towards one of the standards before aborting the jump...It's a fixable problem, but apparently some coaches don't think that starting to drop the pole 1 step before take off is an issue

[ladyvolspvcoach]

Part of the problem (as agapit so aptly pointed out) is that the pole cannot descend any faster than the speed of gravity! That speed cannot be increased unless you pulling the pole down or pushing the pole up or up/forward. When you increase your upperbody movements by introducing quick jerky movements during the last few strides it causes a counter action in the lower body. Normally this translates into an overstride or two. Another reason why someone can suddenly become "under". Especially when attempting to go up a pole.

[vaultfan]

An accepted definition of the plant is those motions which brings the pole from the hip position during the approach to the overhead position of the takeoff.

I believe that most people will agree that this planting process takes place during the last 3 to 3 ½ strides.

A definition (per Jan Johnson) of “a late plant is when the plant begins later than two strides from the boxâ€Â

[agapit]

From this perspective, I guess "dump planters," individuals who literally drop their pole from near vertical into the box and jump, must have the latest possible plant. Which is why no one should ever do that.

That does not follow. The measure of whether a plant is late is whether it was completed on time, not when it was started. If you carry your pole near vertical it will take longer to drop, so the drop must be started sooner than someone who carries it more horizontal. If they start it on time, it will not be late. There are advantages to carrying the pole more vertical and if you want to make use of those, you simply have to adjust when you start your drop in order to avoid a "late plant".

This is a good analysis.

However, because the drop time is a constant for a particular pole height carry, the late plant timeliness depends on the beginning of the drop when using the free drop plant) hence, the late plant equals the late beginning of the drop.

The distinction is important for training purposes. Unless you are going to adjust athlete’s pole carry height you must recommend to the athlete to start the drop earlier to avoid the late plant.

So in the athlete’s mind the late plant should equal the late start of the drop.

[skyin' pimp]

dude... your picture is kindof freaky... it's like i'm getting stared at while reading

[altius]

Two points -both made by Petrov a long time ago, may help to clarify this important issue.

First he stated "The plant begins with the first step of the run up" . This is a restatement of the totally integrated nature of his model but also reflects the fact that most Petrov/Bubka model athletes do begin a gradual lowering of the pole from its initial very high position , on the very first step.

However more important is his notion that the pole should essentially be in position for take off as the athlete moves onto the penultimate step. So by definition if the pole is not there at that point the athlete is 'planting' late -and this in turn suggests that they have started to move the pole into position for the take off too late -or to turn it around - not soon enough.

Finally remember that the 'plant' is only a means of moving the pole from an efficient carry position into an efficient position for an upspringing take off. One of the key indicators of the effectiveness of the Petrov Bubka model is that athletes who employ it effectively continue to accelerate through the last five metres while most athletes who do not tend to decelerate during that phase.

Thought for the day - perhaps even the week. "Wisdom can come from any place,from any time in history and in any language."

[agapit]

Part of the problem (as agapit so aptly pointed out) is that the pole cannot descend any faster than the speed of gravity! That speed cannot be increased unless you pulling the pole down or pushing the pole up or up/forward. When you increase your upperbody movements by introducing quick jerky movements during the last few strides it causes a counter action in the lower body. Normally this translates into an overstride or two. Another reason why someone can suddenly become "under". Especially when attempting to go up a pole.

Thank you!