Pole Vault Spotting Proposal...

[cdmilton]

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Posted For:
Glen P. Drexler
Assistant Track & Field
Pole Vault, Throws Coach
University of Wisconsin-Superior
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Pole Vaulter's, Coaches, Administrators,

I am a Pole Vault coach for the University of Wisconsin-Superior. I have been involved in competing or coaching the Pole Vault for nearly 20 years. My vaulting "education" has come through many years of hard work, practice and studying under some of the greatest vaulters' and vault coaches ever. I have attended camps and clinics under some of the greatest vaulting "minds" in the United States... Earl Bell, Don Hood, and Bill Falk; and in my mind, locally: Kevin Hanson at St. Cloud State University in Minnesota. I would like to voice my thoughts regarding Safety in the Pole Vault… I know there are others out there with many years the experience I have, not to mention a greater “cloutâ€Â

[vaulter894]

i thought maybe, because, if someone were to come back onto the runway instead of just the vaulter being injured, both spotter and vaulter could get hurt. For the most part, I don't think the tap is legal either. I do like the spot idea if you had a beginner and they were holding low and doing some straight pole drills, then maybe someone spotting them is a good idea. I like the article. I think a big safety concern that I would fix instead is mat size and facilities. I mean I know it was my fault, but I have missed the mats but if they were slightly bigger/wider I actually would have been fine. Most schools do just the minimal because of price. I would rather see two nearby HS join together to make a bigger pit and use the better facility then two schools with minimal mats with one track being decent and the other being cynders (spelling)

[ashcraftpv]

i've occasionally had myslef or my kids on the perimiter of the mats if one kid is drifting to one side or another to give a quick shove if they are going to miss the mats, but i don't kow if coming directly behind the vaulter into the box is such a good idea. You're setting yourself and the vaulter up for a possible injury in case they were to get rejected, break a pole, etc. I can see standing at the very front of the front buns in position to do something if needed, but not being directly in front of the box.

Also, if you're going to have people lined around the outside of the mats, those football blocking pads work very well in protecting the spotter and the vaulter in case a course correction is needed.

[rainbowgirl28]

[quote="cdmilton"] The subject of “certifyingâ€Â

[MightyMouse]

I think spotting is a great idea for begining vaulters with low hand grips and low speed, but once the athlete starts running fast the forces become to much for a spotter to handle

Check out the "spotter" in this video hes the guy with the Grey Hooded sweat shirt on the left who thinks he can stop a 150-170lb vaulter going 12 mps
http://www.neovault.com/mem_video_biffs.asp - go to the
Ben Groh clip at the bottom left
*you have to have a neovault subscription

[gbob]

Hello all...

Thanks for your comments. I truely appreciate what everyone has mentioned. As for some questions that have been brought up, I would like a chance to discuss some of my thought process involving "spotting"

First, Certification... I am certified (Jan Johnson's PVSafety Certification). I took the test, passed and all. I understand everything there. But I still see way too many H.S. and even some College coaches who dont have the necessary background in pole vault in order to truely understand the event. Granted, the test is decent, I really think there could be more to it.

Spotting: first of all, yes, i am very aware that the position I am putting myself in behind the vaulter as they are taking off, is often a postion where it could allow for injury to both vaulter and spotter... but i think that is the point. There are certain instances where its going to be a choice between me (the spotter) getting hurt or the athlete, I pick me. I would rather break an arm or a leg protecting my athlete from serious injury or death than to be standing there watching it without doing anything about it.

As i said in my letter, in a situation of "stalling" or coming back down, atleast i am there to push the pole back over the mats where the athlete can drop to the mats instead of possibly shooting back away from the mats either down the runway or off to one side or the other.

In the case of someone coming down from a vault either head or back facing the ground first, I would then be in the position to keep their head up, possibly saving from a traumatic spinal or skull injury.

As far as the coaches and athletes taking more risk, well, i dont think that is the case, at least in my situation with my vaulters. I emphasize correct technique and proper form, as well as teaching basic "gymnastics" as a form of safety. Example: teaching how to land on the ground, (similarly to Military training for airborne troops) with both legs together and rolling to ones side. Teaching to stay away from landing on their feet, which could cause ankle, knee and a variety of other injuries. I do think though that ofthen times in meets, some athletes DO take risks and try getting on a pole that is too big... maybe the adrenaline is not there, they have taken too many vaults and are just too tired to get on the pole they need for their higher attempts, maybe something else. This is happening already, without a spotter. Most coaches in this case would probably make sure they are ready for a bad situation, but this might be the case when a coach just dosent think to be prepared to "spot" their athlete.

I like the idea of the football blocking pads for spotting. I have even thought I might go so far as to wear an athletic cup and impact resistant sunglasses/glasses (safety glasses) when i am spotting but then I wonder where I need to draw the line. Shin gaurds? hockey gear? helmet?

I guess my biggest question to ANYONE/EVERYONE would be: would you be completely against seeing a spotter become a part of competition? How about even making it an option for each vaulter to use it? (maybe optional in college, mandatory in hs?) The idea of someone being in the position to protect agains a dead drop from a height, or to push a pole back into landing distance of the pit in the case of stalls.

Is it a viable solution? I understand in our litigious society in the case of someone getting hurt, there would always be a possibility of a "spotter" getting sued for trying to save a life. So maybe that is where we are at... we will not spot because we are more afraid of the legal consequences than of trying to do the right thing?

questions to ponder.

Right now, I am trying to find some sort of support of this idea to be able to take to my athletic conference in order to help make our sport safer. In regards to pole vault safety someone has said: "Lets create a solution". I agree. Maybe spotting isnt the solution, but lets decide why it isn't beyond a shadow of a doubt before dismissing it as ineffective.

Once again, I appreciate each of your responses' and would love to hear more from each of you on this topic. I think there is a real opportunity to do something good for our sport lets find some constructive discussion on this!

Thanks again!

-glen

[Bonevt]

I strongly disagree with your idea of putting people around the pit, and also I don't realy like the idea of having someone spot behind. I think that 90% of these problems can be solved by something else you were saying Coaching I agree with Jan, jumper should be required to lang in the middle of the pit or be DQed from a meet. It may not seem fair, but putting people around the pit is only putting a band-ad on a broken bone. Also I think that coaches should be held responcible for their vaulter, I cannot count the times that I have herd a coach tell someone something that is wrong and also putten their vaulter at risk. One of the things that people don't understand is that kids will do what their coaches tell them regardless if it is safe or not, most of the time they don't know better. Glob I think that it is great that your looking for answers and that you know that not one single person has them all.

[MightyMouse]

Maybe instead of putting more people around the pit we could put more padding, our school typically puts old Highjump pits infront of the front buns, which would be able to cushion your fall much better than a coach

[ladyvolspvcoach]

One clear problem with spotting at the D1 level, is that the athletes are athletes. They are much more able to recover and land more safely if my butt is not in the way. The spotter is more liable to cause an injury than if the athlete has free reign to manuver his or her self while on the pole. I agree with some of the others that really strict coaching will prevent the great majority of the rejection related injuries.

[souleman]

I did put a yes vote in the poll, when now that I think about it, a maybe would have been more my feelings. All of the ideas carry some merit but it brings to mind a totally different subject than spotting. When you make an event "more trouble than it's worth" (think like a school administrator for a minute now). Rather than work on an improvement, they'll just bag the event all together. I have looked at the prices for a poles $300+ each and we need several (which unlike in my day when I had just 1), standards, $1000 to $1300, box $195 to $400 and finally the pit (which some are suggesting buy more of). What I have seen is somewhere in the neightborhood of between $7000 and $12000 for one. How many books can that money buy? Around here (Minnesota) starting salary for a teacher is somewhere around $28,000 to $32,000 per year. Has any body been hearing about parents and school administrations griping about classroom sizes being too full? How 'bout the teachers that are being layed off? Sometimes (even though we would kinda wish it was different) it's best to "lay low" and not draw any more attention to the cost and liability obligations to our schools, coaches, etc. than it is to stir up the pot. Once a bean counter takes a look at the cost of just 1 event (ours) and figures where else he can put that money that will do more good overall for the district or school than in the pole vault event, you can bet he will. Make it too much trouble and you'll go to practice one day and there won't be any equipment to practice on or with. You'll see the "plaquard" hung over the event that reads, " due to the cost of operation in both equipment and insurance cost to cover everyone who gets within 100 feet of this event. This event has been closed". Trust me folks, I'm not dissin' anyone or anyones' ideas but this slant is something that all of us should be aware of when it comes to "the politics" and dollars and cents of our event. Later.........Mike

[belmore]

Yes spotting is a good idea, not really practical and pretty tricky, but a damn good idea. We've been trying to do that for several years at University of Texas meets. Head Coach Bubba Thornton has surrounded his pit with certified official who are all pv fans. He's never directed us to catch a vaulter, but we have. We missed Ray Scotten at the NCAA's, but I don't think anyone could have caught him! Spotting, or as we call it catching vaulters will never replace good coaching and air mindness. Fiberglass poles plus adrenaline and competive spirit can really make this event unpredictable. You don't have to have football pads to push a falling vaulter back into the pit, just good eyes and a shove does the trick. Crossbars and poles hurt more than a falling body. Worst bruise I received was from a broken pole, popped me in the collar bone. Course I'm old and getting sissified. Stan Scott stood his ground and got popped in the hand with a pole catching a pretty elite vaulter and should have gotten stitches. He had two margaritas and had the wife take him back to Lubbock. I like the idea, just know that most meets are going to have a coach with a clipboard running the event and a couple of kids from gym class putting the bar up for him. I like the idea of getting coaches certified, but not everyone wants to coach or has the time. What I would like to propose again on this board is that everyone that signs up and enjoys this great website, gets certified as a track and field official, go volunteer a couple of weekends to officiate the vault at high school, jr. high and aau and usatf meets in the summer. Good coaching, good officiating and keeping and eye out for flying bodies, we can keep this sport kicking. If you do volunteer to officiate, if you see a vaulter flying your way, don't throw your hands over your face and run away squealing, stand your ground and keep ' em in the foam

[gbob]

I like what Soulman is saying... and I understand why, sometimes (as was said, i wish it were different) its better to keep quiet, than to stir the pot. Thats why I wanted to bring it in a context like this first. I think there are alot of Vaulters and Vault coaches out there who do pay attention to these kind of discussions. Thats what I wanted...

ladyvolspvcoach, I agree that most DI athletes are athletes... much more able to recover... but sometimes (even with the greats) there are mistakes... I also agree that there is that possibility of the spotter causing more harm than good.

but as Belmore mentioned, if there is a vaulter falling in your direction keep'em on the foam. But if no one is there to do that... well you get the point.

Obviously there are no clear answers to the question of Pole Vault safety. In my ideas in the subject of spotting, i thought that "spotting" might be a less expensive way to add safety to the vault. Of course more pads would be better, of course better coaches and certification would be better at all levels, of course a PLZ would be great! everything mentioned would be better, the problem is, as with anything, it dosent always happen.

The hard truth about all of this for me would be the fact that, Safety as it stands right now, is not going to change over night. I was looking for a way to protect my athletes as best i could in the coming months, confernce, nationals, etc... but once you get to those meets we, as coaches, are not allowed near the pits or athletes... (i understand all the reasons why...) i just feel responsible for my athletes well being and safety. No matter how well I coach them, teach them about safety, about vaulting "awareness", no matter what I do, there is always a chance of something happening that even spotting cannot control nor prevent.

Once again, i appreciate all the discussion regarding this... lets keep it up. Maybe we can find some better ideas to send to Jan about safety in our sport. Agreed, spotting as a requirement is not going to happen and definatly not the final answer. Yet lets not forget how and why it is still needed regardless of rules and regulations... there are pleny of times in meets, and especially practice when even the best vaulters need a little "shove" into the foam.

-Glen