Buying a new pole

[wfoster07]

I am a high school coach who does not know a lot about pole vaulting. I have two vaulters, one needs a pole @ a bigger weight because he is currently too heavy for his 12'6 155 Skypole, and I also have another vaulter who has cleared 13' on a 13' 155 Skypole. I want to get a pole that will benefit them both. My vaulters tell me they need a longer pole, preferrably a 14 ft 165. I think we would be best to purchase a 13'6" 165 in an attend to help both vaulters. I will take any advice you can offer.

[Skyfly]

Do you have any videos of these vaulters? A 13'6 165 is a significantly stiffer pole than what these jumpers are currently using.

[KirkB]

I have two vaulters, one needs a pole @ a bigger weight because he is currently too heavy for his 12'6 155 Skypole, and I also have another vaulter who has cleared 13' on a 13' 155 Skypole. I want to get a pole that will benefit them both. My vaulters tell me they need a longer pole, preferably a 14 ft 165. I think we would be best to purchase a 13'6" 165 in an attempt to help both vaulters. I will take any advice you can offer.

Take a look at Jan Johnson's pole chart here: http://www.vstraining.com/skyjumpers/component/content/article/93-articles/pole-vault/65-pole-progression-chart

Each line is a 5 pound increment in relative stiffness.

So of the poles mentioned above, they're on these lines:

Line 30: 12'6 155 - Vaulter A can't make the weight rule on this pole
Line 32: 13' 155 - Vaulter B cleared 13' on this size pole
Line 36: 13'6" 165 - Coach thinks this is the best compromise pole for both vaulters
Line 38: 14' 165 - Vaulters A and B both want a longer pole (something like this one)

So the 13' 155 is 10 pounds heavier than the 12'6 155;
the 13'6" is 20 pounds heavier than the 13' 155;
and the 14' 165 is 10 pounds heavier than the 13'6" 165.

You get the idea.

You didn't mention their grips, weights, or PRs (maybe Vaulter B's PR is 13'). Knowing those would help us zero in on the best pole(s) for them.

If both vaulters want a longer pole, it must be because they want to grip higher than 13'? If that's the case, then I think your idea of getting a 13'6" pole is a good one.

If both you and the vaulters want a 165 pound pole, then it must be because at least one of them weighs 161-165 pounds?

But as Skyfly said, you realize that you're jumping up 20 pounds heavier than what Vaulter B has successfully used? That's probably too sudden of an increase.

If the 2 vaulters weigh more than 5 pounds apart, then the best pole for one of them isn't going to be the best pole for the other.

We really need more information to help you make this decision. And also (the reason Skyfly's asking for vid), it might just be that both vaulters need to improve their technique substantially to be able to use a pole that's legal for HS competition.

Kirk

[wfoster07]

Thanks for the responses. Also the information on the chart was very helpful. I talked to another former college vaulter yesterday and he gave me very similar advice. They both are currently holding very high on the pole, which is why something longer would be beneficial. Your comment that they are too different to compromise is good advice. My issue is that since I work for a high school I am limited by what the athletic department will purchase, which is why I am trying to find something for both. The advice I was given from the other source was to use the money from the athletic department to buy a pole that will satisfy the weight rule (and for safety of course) so the athletic department is purchasing a 14' 170 because the 155s I have are too small for a now 161 lb vaulter. Not ideal but I also have contacted some other coaches about purchasing some used poles at reduced prices which will allow me to find a longer pole for my vaulter who has cleared 13'.

[wfoster07]

and also they both definitely need to improve their form, but if the school offers to buy a pole you have to take advantage of that because it will not happen again.

[KirkB]

That 14' 170 is on line 39 of the chart, which means it's yet another 5 pounds heavier than the 14' 165 on line 38.

If you think your vaulters need a 170 (to pass the weight rule), have you considered the 13'6" pole on line 37? The 13'6" 170?

Or if they're not going to be over 165 pounds this year, then why not the 13'6" 165?

I know you're on a limited budget, but it's really expecting a lot for 2 vaulters to be on poles that are way too heavy for them when they first start out. It could hamper their technique to the point that they just can't use the pole.

Kirk

[GasPasser]

That .... It could hamper their technique to the point that they just can't use the pole.

Kirk

Great advice by Kirk - this one sentence should have grabbed you, it did me.

With only the info you have provided:
Vaulter 1: Heavier than 155#, using a 12'6"-155, griping not higher than 12'6 (and not able to grip high enough to use the 13-155 - which is similar to a 12'6"-165)

Vaulter 2: Weighs less than or equal to 155#, using a 13-155, griping no higher than 13' (and wants to grip higher)

Your choice of a 14-170 is a poor one, in my opinion, which is not based on seeing either of these vaulters in action.

If you put vaulter 1 on the 14-170, using his current grip, it will feel like a 12'6"-200. OMG!!!! If he suddenly raised his grip to 13' , it would feel like a 13-190. But if he could raise his grip to 13', why wasn't he using the 13-155 rather than the 12'6"-155? I suspect that his technique is not good enough yet. So what make you think he could use a 14-170 anytime soon?

If vaulter 2, uses the 14-170, at a 13' grip, it would feel like a 13-190 a 35# increase is stiffness!!!! That's huge - like moving up 7 poles in a series - unheard of!

Both of these vaulters are going to have bad experiences going up that much in pole (to a 14-170)!!! I think you are expecting too much from these vaulters to make that big of a jump in poles without having a series/progression of smaller increases in pole sizes to help them get there step-by-step. If a pole is too stiff - the vaulter can get rejected and not land in the pit. This is a big safety concern and should be a coaches #1 priority!

A better choice, would be a 13'6"-160. That is still a big jump for both vaulters (it will feel like a 12'6"-180 for vaulter 1 - a 25# or 5 pole increase, and feel like a 13-170 for vaulter 2 - a 15# or 3-pole increase in stiffness). If vaulter 1 needs a 165# pole, then maybe you should consider a 13-165 instead. Even though vaulter 2 can't go above 13' in grip on a 13-165 pole, it will be 10# stiffer than what he's using today - it will have the same "feel" as a 13'6"-155 - like going up two poles for vaulter 2. Vaulter 2 should be able to jump higher on a stiffer pole without raising his grip because it will throw him higher - if he has good technique.

A even better choice is to look at more economical pole brands (PacerOne, Altius, Rocket) and get two poles - one for each vaulter. Remember, going up 6' in pole length, adds 10# of stiffness if all else is kept the same (grip and weight rating). That's what Jan's chart illustrates so very well.

Another rule of thumb a lot of coaches use with pole progression is that, until the vaulter is using a pole 20#'s above their body weight - don't go up in pole length (assuming you have all poles at your disposal). So if a 150# vaulter is holding at the top of his 13' pole, he stays on 13' poles until the 13-170 is too small, then he/she can move to a 13'6"-165 (which is equal in stiffness to a 13-175).

[pv170]

Guys, I have a similar situation that could use some advice with.

I have a 14' 7" 145 pole that has a flex of 26.4 flex, which I am pretty sure is a softer or lighter flex.

I am buying a 14' 7" 155 pole. I am buying it because the 145 is extremely soft and neither of boys I have get anything off the top of this pole, even holding 2 grips down.

My question is this, should I continue buying poles with soft flex, to be consistent or should I buy something with a stiffer flex because 10 pounds heavier is not that much stiffer.

[GasPasser]

For these two vaulters, if they are able to use the existing pole 2 grips down (as well as holding higher), then yes, a 155 rated pole would be a good one to buy. If you can afford it, also get a 160.