Timing of the PULL

[PVDaddy]

I had mentioned months ago I would make one final post defending my position as to why I believed the ideal time to pull was immediately after the vaulter broke at the hips and in this post I explained.
1) If you train the vaulter to pull prior to this time you are jeopardizing the safety and efficiency of the vault because you are limiting the elasticity of the vaulter thereby the efficiency of the swing and of equal importance the ability of the pole to roll forward. Any coach worth there salt understands the importance of this principal and safety.
2) As the swing leg foot has passed the pole, the pole has already completed the very important process of rolling over to the vertical position (From the box to the point of were the bend begins, the pole is vertical).
3) At this point in the swing the vaulter has to fight the forces of gravity in the upswing and this is assisted with the pull.
4) The vaulter is in the ideal bio-mechanical position to employ the maximum benefit of the pull. The hands are in the ideal placement.
5) It has the effect of helping to shoot the vaulter skyward at the ideal time of flyaway. And Finally
6) It has a symbiotic relation ship with the bottom hand push as the the motion is integrated into one seamless action!

These conclusions were arrived at and are the culmination of my lengthy study of the art of the vault.
it is my hope that this old sleepy dog is finally put to bed! Goodnight!

[PVDaddy]

I should have made 7 points, because what I failed to mention was that the motion of re-extending the arms upward and yes partially forward, with the pole, when the hands are over the head while coming out of the "full body coil' position of reverse-C, naturally, seamlessly and here too, SYMBIOTICALLY assist in the acceleration and force of the pull, at the perfect moment and position. Agapits "Continuous Chain of Motion" should never be disrupted. Just as the pull perfectly blends with and assist the push toward the pit. I believe it is our jobs as coaches to make CERTAIN our vaulters know and visualize that chain and see every link and especially KNOW, the order of the links. However,these links are NEVER to be visualized as being individuals, but are in fact interwoven into one necklace, were it is impossible to see were one begins or ends.

[PVstudent]

To PVdaddy,

Your posts on the timing of the "lower Arm pull" are unfortunately so confused and misguided as to be yet more incomprehensible twaddle!

Forget trying to use fancy jargon when trying to make descriptions of what you believe your observations are telling you. Your engagement in debate on this, and other issues, shows you don't really understand the topic and your explanations of the principles of flexible pole vaulting are so abstruse and esoteric as to be useless to practicing coaches of advanced level pole vaulters.

The least you can do, so that knowledgeable readers of the advanced section can understand you, is for you to give your observation without the "argot" and the "attitude"!

Do us the courtesy of telling us about the observations you make of your own vaulters. Leave out the hypothesizing and pseudo science which insults the experience and practical intelligence of advanced coaches and elite vaulters.

Many readers of the advanced section have coached and been associated with some of the best male and female pole vaulters on the planet. What you may think is revolutionary, original and earth shattering is not news for coaches of this calibre!!!

Because so much of what you say misguides , is often quite wrong, wrapped in jargon and worst of all based on apparently very limited experience, of watching and coaching pole vault performance of an advanced standard in real life, your contributions cannot be given credibility by knowledgeable readers.

The audience for the advanced section is rapidly diminishing, so PVdaddy cut us some slack, give yourself a break from pole vault power and rack up some thousands of coaching hours on this event.

Produce some pole vaulters at the elite level and then preach to us...til you have achieved this milestone give us a break PLEASE!!!!!!!!

Active coaches of advanced pole vaulters have found much of value and practical help in the material provided by contributors to the Advanced Section of the Polevaultpower message board in the past.

Stalwart contributors have tried to discuss matters with you and, after valiant multiple efforts, abandoned their discourse with you as exercises in futility! I wonder why?

I most assuredly would like to make a contribution on this topic based on evidence subjected to the rigorous analysis that I have applied when considering other matters on this site. However, I will not be doing so given your track record in the Advanced Section discussions to date. It would be yet another exercise in futility because of your probable obscurantist involvement.

[PVDaddy]

Pvstudent, please post for us all when you believe the timing of the pull should occur during an ideal vault and give us all your rational for it?

I have said and will repeatedly say that the pull should occurr as the vaulter breaks at the hips and the feet pass the pole. I have given 7 reasons why this is true.

NOW IT IS YOUR TURN PVSTUDENT TO SHOW US ALL HOW SMART YOU ARE. You went out of your way in your jealosy and hate toward me as you always do with useless words

PUT YOUR MONEY WERE YOUR MOUTH IS NOW! WERE ALL WAITING !

[PVDaddy]

With out out a doubt the timing of the pull has been the BIGGEST subject of confusion and misunderstanding since the beginning of PVP. Most of this was due to many who we thought were and should have been the experts. They left us with entire confusion on the subject when in fact it should have been put to rest long,long ago. Perhaps They enjoy their positions too much? I have made my points crystal clear with 7 REASONS! MY mission is complete here I am satisfied. This is my last post. I will leave you with this final thought.

The "Continuous Chain of Motion" should never be disrupted. It is our jobs as coaches to make CERTAIN our vaulters know and visualize that chain and see every link and especially KNOW, the order of the links. However,these links are NEVER to be visualized as being individuals, but are in fact interwoven into one necklace, were it is impossible to see were one begins or ends.

[PVDaddy]

Kirks last response has caused me to post one more challenge to You experts.


UNDER THE IDEAL PLANT AND TAKE OFF, IS A PULL THROUGH ONE OR BOTH ARMS APPROPRIATE, AN IF SO, WHEN SHOULD IT OCCUR?
YOU MUST INCLUDE YOUR RATIONAL AS I HAVE OTHERWISE YOU

Let the reader be aware. I expect very few of these experts will take me up on this challege. THEY WILL NOT TELL YOU WHEN! Let their ongoing silence, be a testimony to the truth of my thread!

[PVDaddy]

PV STUDENT:

I most assuredly would like to make a contribution on this topic based on evidence subjected to the rigorous analysis that I have applied when considering other matters on this site. However, I will not be doing so

This is what is called an ALIBI. A pre-reason out of FEAR of the truth! A form of cowardice and hiding from the truth! We say here in America: Put up or shut up!

[PVDaddy]

Let their ongoing silence, be a testimony to the truth of my thread! Just address the question and see if you are able to do it openly and honestly without attacking anyone. Good luck!

[KirkB]

This is my last post.

I knew it was too good to be true.

I have talked about the "pull" many times over the past several years, and I will not be repeating myself here.

The tone of the question is one of antagonism, and not one of a genuine aspiring coach or athlete that really wants to know the answer.

Like most other threads originated by you-know-who, this one has gone down another rat-hole.

Kirk

[PVDaddy]

No it is not what so ever a post of antagonism! Simply Just a straight forward question with an explanation of rational? Is that to much to ask?
Still waiting............................?

[PVDaddy]

Not only have I made my position clear as to the appropriate timing of the Pull, but I have given 7, I repeat 7 reasons for supporting my rational and these so called expert are not only unable to dispute my position, they can't even dispute 1 of my 7 reasons for backing my rational? Case is closed gentleman.

[PVstudent]

PVdaddy,

In my case my silence on your thread will be "golden".

Your own responses are all the evidence you need to find the reasons why some readers will not respond to you.

You are right! A lot has already been said on the topic.

All you have demonstrated is that you are not conversant with the literature or, if you are, you simply misconstrue it.

My opinion is that your contribution on this topic is not helpful and that is the primary reason for not responding on your thread!

Secondly, your combative writing tone does not make the effort, by reasoning and reasonable PV Power correspondents who try to show you where you are wrong or way off the mark, worthwhile.

Thirdly, you are like a chameleon changing your position and the colour of your assertive opinions as you discover, dare I say it, that you are shown to not understand what you preach!

Fourthly, you don't get it that at the instant of being suspended by the hands on a pole, whether rigid or flexible, the vaulter will be "swinging" on the pole if the pole tip has contacted the rear wall of the planting box!!!!

Fifthly your initial observation and premises on this topic are wrong. If I am to be charitable you fail to convey in writing what you want to say.

Sixthly, reasoning to account for false premises and factual error simply cannot provide validity to your argument.

Finally, you persist in drowning out most threads on PVP with your "will o'the wisp" opinions. On your thread on this topic I have no evidence that you would benefit from a contribution by me.

Please " stop trying to come the raw prawn!' in the advanced section of PVP. Time for me to throw another shrimp on the barbie before coaching this afternoon.