This is why the new box collar is more dangerous

[Decamouse]

The standard was developed to add protection and give a minimum standard - dimensional requirements - impact attenuation - NCAA choses to require a collar that meets the standard -- and include the wings -- ok -- their option -- then use a collar that meet or complies with the standard -- if your design is close - fix what does not meet the standard -- do not ignore it - fix it - or why have a standard

[Pvcoachk]

I do not see the danger. I only see more safety around the box. We've been using a collar with wings for 4 years and we would never vault without it. I see youngsters vaulting safer. I see 5.50 kids vaulting safer. The angled side of the pad is so soft compared to the combined weight and force of a vaulter sprinting towards the box and gives easily with that pressure. Touching the foam that is elevated is not stopping any pole that I have seen by any kid at any level. If it put real pressure on a pole, I believe the pole would shatter. I havent seen anything close. Before collar pads, I have seen kids slide down the angled pads (especially girls) and hurt their tailbone or lower back in the unprotected box. Ive seen kids bounce into the box and bump their heads before collar pads. Even a minor impact if the skull against the corner of the box could be fatal. Ive seen kids come down and land feet first on the edge of the unprotected box and sprain ankles. Ive seen kids land feet first on the angled foam next to the old naked box and tear their ACLs. Now I see kids scramble back up unhurt! Lets at least wait until the end of the indoor season before we pass judgement on a piece of safety equipment? I believe that in the next few weeks, we will hear how this pad saved some kid big-time! Has anyone asked the top ncaa kids what they think? We should! They tell me they cannot tell a difference. Especially after a few meets, now. Also, i see the main risk of injury in training, when fatigue and a lack of adrenaline make everything tougher. I see those thousands of jumps as the most risky. Thats when a collar really is tested. Why dont we make a point to ask the ncaa kids what they think in Albuquerque. And if the front edge needs tweaking, by all means lets do it. I don't have anything at stake here except my athletes and we will never train without this protection. Thanks for listening.

[Decamouse]

I get the support - I think the standard has merit -- as I have posted - meet the standard -- the fact that it does not in a few areas and "if" and that is a big if the non-compliant area "could" cause or be suggested to have caused a problem and someone comes up short or gets hurt -- what legal ground can be used why you did not adhere to the published standard that the NCAA mandates -- for a lawyer it is almost a slam dunk -- take that out of play and comply like the label indicates it does -- not a difficult concept and not even a difficult change -- fix it

[grandevaulter]

My kids have been competing at GVSU and CMU collegiate venues. I like the looks of the collar. It appears to provide a great deal of protection in and around the box. It may only mate with certain pits. I'm sure there is enough demand for the other manufacturers to get in the game.

[rainbowgirl28]

I'm sure there is enough demand for the other manufacturers to get in the game.

They can't get in the game unless Gill grants them a license, Gill holds a patent on key aspects of the collar.

[grandevaulter]

I'm sure there is enough demand for the other manufacturers to get in the game.

They can't get in the game unless Gill grants them a license, Gill holds a patent on key aspects of the collar.

That is interesting. It's hard to believe that the design specifications are closed so tightly that it creates a monopoly on it. I wonder what the NCAA's postion is on football helmets. Is there one and only supplier that meets the testing requirements?

[rainbowgirl28]

I'm sure there is enough demand for the other manufacturers to get in the game.

They can't get in the game unless Gill grants them a license, Gill holds a patent on key aspects of the collar.

That is interesting. It's hard to believe that the design specifications are closed so tightly that it creates a monopoly on it. I wonder what the NCAA's postion is on football helmets. Is there one and only supplier that meets the testing requirements?

The way the NCAA has currently interpreted the rule, it would be impossible for anyone else to make the product without infringing on their patent, therefore if other manufacturers are going to get in the game, they need a license from Gill.

I have no idea whether or not other sports have the same issue. Obviously there are tons of patents out there.

[grandevaulter]

UCS has one up on their website without a picture or specifications (Not currently available). I doubt that the NCAA can create a monopoly on this part. I believe there is probably enough room in the astm specification for another supplier to alter the design enough as not to violate the Gill patent. But then again, I may be wrong.

[rainbowgirl28]

I believe there is probably enough room in the astm specification for another supplier to alter the design enough as not to violate the Gill patent. But then again, I may be wrong.

If that was the case, don't you think someone would be selling one by now? There's a lot of money to be had in selling compliant box collars.

[grandevaulter]

If that was the case, don't you think someone would be selling one by now? There's a lot of money to be had in selling compliant box collars.

Appears to me to be one of two things. Either somebody is cozy with the NCAA or the other suppliers were asleep at the wheel.

[KirkB]

If that was the case, don't you think someone would be selling one by now? There's a lot of money to be had in selling compliant box collars.

Appears to me to be one of two things. Either somebody is cozy with the NCAA or the other suppliers were asleep at the wheel.

A patent is a patent, and its purpose is to protect the inventor from anyone else stealing their idea. If other suppliers wish to manufacture the new box collar, they will have to pay Gill a royalty. That's how the patent system works and I think it works well.

I doubt that other mfrs were asleep at the wheel. They are probably just waiting to see what the market demand is before they decide to pay Gill a royalty (and Gill is the one that sets the royalty price). It is quite common to follow this path, as the original design might need to be changed due to flaws (as may be the case with the current design).

Also, other mfrs really have no choice but to sit and wait for Gill to offer them a reasonable royalty value, as Gill of course will want to sell as many as they can as soon as they can, before they offer ANY royalty deals to other mfrs.

Kirk

[grandevaulter]

Keep an eye on UCS