Pole Drop, When is Early too Early?

[Vault101 Boy]

So in the ways of the Active Pole Drop: When should the right hand slide forward from the hip to initiate the last part of the drop. Obviously, the optimum varies between run and vaulters, but as a coach what would signal that it was an effectively timed and executed drop?

[VaultPurple]

I teach a 2 left plant where the pole begins to move up the body over each individual step. So with the first right it moves from your hip to a bent arm, next step it is flipped up so right hand is just over right shoulder, next step it moves over center of your head, and as you go into the last left foot hitting the fround the right arm is extended straight over your head.

A good way to count it is if you are running 4 lefts count down to 1 like this... 4, 3, and, 2, and, 1. This way you always start moving the pole right after you say 3. And the pole is at a new position on every count. In this count numbers are left foot and ands are rights. Saying the ands also helps speed up the cadence if the rythem is right.

[altius]

I teach a 2 left plant where the pole begins to move up the body over each individual step. So with the first right it moves from your hip to a bent arm, next step it is flipped up so right hand is just over right shoulder, next step it moves over center of your head, and as you go into the last left foot hitting the fround the right arm is extended straight over your head.

A good way to count it is if you are running 4 lefts count down to 1 like this... 4, 3, and, 2, and, 1. This way you always start moving the pole right after you say 3. And the pole is at a new position on every count. In this count numbers are left foot and ands are rights. Saying the ands also helps speed up the cadence if the rythem is right.

That will lead to a plant that is half a step late!

[Vault101 Boy]

So does the pole begin to drop on a left or right step? And from how far out? I usually start moving the pole on my second to last right step. By moving, I mean the hands begin to move after the pole has reached the heavy point where your hands naturally want to pop up. Did that make sense?

[altius]

So in the ways of the Active Pole Drop: When should the right hand slide forward from the hip to initiate the last part of the drop. Obviously, the optimum varies between run and vaulters, but as a coach what would signal that it was an effectively timed and executed drop?

The answer is simple - it should not slide forward - simply move up.

[VaultPurple]

Yeah I am not 100% sure what you mean about coming forward but I think it is because you carry your right hand behind you when you run, to help you hold the pole up. But if you carry it in front of you and use the left hand as a lever you can keep your right hand right next to your hip.

Altius: Why would it be a half step late? If the vaulter is not under with his take off, the right arm should be fully extended right before the pole tip hits the back of the box.

The athlete in the following video uses the count I was talking about and I think it looks fine. Any suggestions on the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teoauYgg ... ture=feedu

[Andy_C]

Yeah I am not 100% sure what you mean about coming forward but I think it is because you carry your right hand behind you when you run, to help you hold the pole up. But if you carry it in front of you and use the left hand as a lever you can keep your right hand right next to your hip.

Altius: Why would it be a half step late? If the vaulter is not under with his take off, the right arm should be fully extended right before the pole tip hits the back of the box.

The athlete in the following video uses the count I was talking about and I think it looks fine. Any suggestions on the video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=teoauYgg ... ture=feedu

Having the top arm fully extended does not guarantee that the foot has took off when the pole tip hits the back of the box. You can still have the arm fully extended before the tip hits the back of the box and still take off under if your pole plant is not in ideal synchronization with the stride pattern and foot placement. The ideal time to have the arm fully extended is the instant before the take off foot hits the ground for the actual jump, provided that the jump happens in the right place. At this point the arms should no longer carry any weight of the pole so that the body is completely free to jump unabated. The ideal plant, by definition, is early.

It's not wrong to say that the extension should come before the pole tip hits the back, in fact that's what should happen. It's just missing a bit of detail with concern to the steps. I personally think of the plant as always related to the foot placement, that way you can practice it a million times without having a box be there all the time. Then I always relate the stride to a certain distance (with check marks in between) and a point of take off. That way you've got all your ingredients there ready to cook even without a box to practice with. I try not to worry about the box too much, it's not really going anywhere! But the plant timing, stride pattern and run up distances can definitely change! The box is just there minding it's own business when somebody happens to come along and stick a pole in it!

The plant I use is 6 steps (3 lefts), with the "plant proper" occurring 3 steps out. At 6 steps the pole should be at about 45 degrees - depends on the vaulter's speed, but at walking pace I say 45 degrees. The pole is lowered through the first 3 steps to about 10 degrees from horizontal on step 3. Then the plant proper happens on steps 4, 5 and 6. The pole transitions through horizontal on 4 and both arms move up ward through 4 and 5. Ideally the arms should both be extended the moment before step 6 hits the ground for the jump. At the very least the top arm should be fully extended, the bottom arm should be in a strong position if it's not possible to be fully extended because of a smaller pole. Sounds complex but get it down with your athlete and it's automatic. BTB2 has a great little cue that I really like - "one, two, three, plant, two three"

This is also one of the reasons why I use "steps" instead of "lefts" - it allows you to be more accurate with what you're describing to the athlete. You can miss a lot of details between 2 steps (1 left) especially during the plant! Using steps allows you to tell an athlete exactly where you want the hands and pole to be in a much more precise timing. I can't tell somebody that the plant proper happens 1.5 lefts out!

-Andrew

P.S. Sorry but I can't see your video. I've got problems with my internet at the moment.

[dj]

It's not wrong to say that the extension should come before the pole tip hits the back

i would say the extension of the left arm... and attemt to "jump/impluse" up BEFORE the pole hits the back of the box...

warning... you can only takeoff "free'/out/on if the 6 step "MID" is correct (or closer) for your speed ability..

on pole drop... you must, to proform it correctly, carry the pole the way it is described by Petrov... then the "timinig" can be explained like this...

if your pole tip is 15-to 20 feet in the air during carry...it WILL fall at 32 feet per second square... with the resistants created by the run... doing the math it will take about 1.5 seconds for the pole tip to "free fall" from up to down.... vaulters cover the last six steps of the approach run in 1.5 seconds or less....

dj

every vaulter can learn a "pole drop and free takeoff".. you have to start with the grip low.. steps close and work your grip up and your steps out.. Bubba sparks style...

the key is to move the grip up and the "MID" out proportionately... the failure usually comes when the steps are out.. forcing the vaulter to stretch.. one you stretch you cannot proform a correct pole drop and free takeoff...

dj

[tsorenson]

I also use strides instead of lefts, for the same reasons Andy C described. I tell vaulters that they want to have the pole flipped over (right hand starting to rise) when their 3rd-to-last footstrike occurs, which means that the plant actually started 4 strides out. This coincides with the tip being at eye-level. Timing of the initiation of the pole drop varies depending on the vaulter's speed, but it is usually about 6 strides from the takeoff. If they are slower it may need to start a little later.

As altius said, don't move the right hand forward to initiate the plant. Raise the right hand straight up the line of the body. The right elbow may "swing back" to accomodate this motion, but the right hand should not ever go very far behind the hip. If it does, that means that you aren't using a free pole drop and the weight of the pole is affecting your posture. The high left hand fulcrum described by Petrov et al is instrumental in this planting technique.

Read Spencer Chang's great article about the vault to learn more about carry/drop/plant mechanics and how they relate to stride pattern.
http://www.usapolevaulting.org/articles ... SChang.pdf

Good luck!
Tom

[altius]

[quote="VaultPurple"]" and as you go into the last left foot hitting the fround the right arm is extended straight over your head." We may have a problem because it is not always easy to use words to describe complex actions. What I would prefer you to say is that the arms must be in position for take off BEFORE the left foot strikes. Another cue is that when the right foot is flat on the ground the right hand must be just above the head - thumb knuckle touching.

Re your video - the fault there is that ideally the left arm should always stay level with the centre of the chest - at the same level as at the start of the vault - it then moves forward to act as a fulcrum around which the pole rotates as the right hand comes up the side of the torso and above the head. This gets the tip down naturally towards the box - the athlete you show here moves the left hand up too high - instead of simply moving it forward - so that at one point the pole is horizontal - a no no and a real problem with a heavy pole -and makes getting it down smoothly for a free take off difficult if not impossible.

[Barto]

This is not as complicated as it is being made.

1) get the pole parallel to the ground on the last stride with the takeoff leg before takeoff.

2) curl the top hand to the ear as the heel of the penultimate step strikes the ground.

3) fully extend the top arm as the heel of the takeoff step strikes the ground.

The pole drop is a continuous motion that begins with the first step of the approach. How long the approach is dictates how fast the pole drops, but it begins with the first step even from 9 or 10 lefts. If is does not, then your acceleration mechanics are inefficient and you will have problems with your sprint mechanics and takeoff mechanics later in the jump.

[tsorenson]

This is not as complicated as it is being made.

1) get the pole parallel to the ground on the last stride with the takeoff leg before takeoff.

2) curl the top hand to the ear as the heel of the penultimate step strikes the ground.

3) fully extend the top arm as the heel of the takeoff step strikes the ground.

Not wanting to start a big argument with Barto, he is the man. However, the point of discussion boards is discussion, so here goes:

With all due respect, I have to disagree. While your description is true in a general sense, it does not describe a free pole drop, which is the best way to achieve a free takeoff. Why do 90% of vaulters take off under? Because 90% of vaulters don't focus enough on the minutiae of the drop and plant. If you are lowering the pole slowly when it reaches horizontal, instead of letting gravity drop it, you will have longer steps and a slower plant. If your hands drop before the plant, you will have longer steps and a slower plant. Having a slower plant = stretching and taking off under, which is probably the # problem with most vaulters. So I feel it's worth discussing the complicated aspects of the drop and plant.

The pole drop is a continuous motion that begins with the first step of the approach. How long the approach is dictates how fast the pole drops, but it begins with the first step even from 9 or 10 lefts. If is does not, then your acceleration mechanics are inefficient and you will have problems with your sprint mechanics and takeoff mechanics later in the jump.

This I agree with, but you have to qualify it by stating that there is a "weightless" angle at which the pole can be carried as you are accelerating. It's about 45 degrees. This angle should be used throughout the approach run, until you are the appropriate distance, from which you can let the pole drop freely into the box using gravity. Usually this is 5-6 strides from the box. With this type of pole drop (free) you will not feel the weight of the pole at all. The key is that once the tip starts to drop, it should continue to drop until it goes into the box. If there are any pauses it will pull you off balance. Generally the tip of the pole will be at eye level when the 3rd to last footstrike occurs.

Tom