From Beginner to Bubka

[baggettpv]

Standing grip is standing flat footed and reaching up as high as you can on the pole right next to you.
The basic idea of jumping higher is to do activities that increase that ability, like jumping alot. And learning the jump dynamics of jumping from a run. Long jumping helps. Alittle vague but many variables.


Rick

[dj]

Petrov Test

Could you explain the relationship between the max grip from 3 lefts to the relationship with that and take-off location from full approach?

Rick Baggett

I believe this has been answered and i know, Rick, you know the process...

The relationship is the "application of force"... The force you can apply to get a straight pole to vertical from a 6 step (3 left) approach and the grip height obtained from that force.... theoretically will equal the "takeoff" point you should have from your full run approach. That "Theoretical" takeoff point would then help you determine your "potential" grip from your full approach.

My "Six Step "MID" Chart" gives you a quick reference for this.

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The "Theory" is simple application of force, your speed and technique allows you to grip a specific height... when you add the speed from your full approach.... your speed and technique, "theatrically", will allow you to grip a distance equal to the "takeoff" distance from your stiff pole/6 step grip.


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zachwinters156

I just measured where my straight pole grip is and it was about 10' 6"-8", which seems pretty low relative to what I've heard from others. I never really work to push that up though. I will spend some good time at my first vault practice of the summer today from a three trying to move that up (I definitely think i can get it well over 11') However, the relationship between straight pole grip and take off point seems about accurate for me at least because 10' 6"-8" is about where i need to be taking off on the poles im on now.

Zach's grip from his six step/stiff pole is 10'6"-8"…. Referencing my chart you get an average grip for a 10'8" takeoff of 13'-5" and an average vault of 14'0"….

Don't know Zach PR but I have found this "process" to be highly accurate. The more efficient you become from the 6 step stiff pole "theoretically" the more efficient you become from you full approach.. each set of numbers should go up proportionally.

Foot Note: I saw Bubka actually use this process at the LA (Los Angeles) Indoor meet. I realized what he was doing and actually discussed it with Bubba (Sparks) afterwards. I'm also sure Bubba talked with Alan (altius) about this at some point. We played around with the idea some time later at Irvine using my chart as a reference.

I also saw Volkov use a similar "thought" process in Montreal in 1979… When I asked him what he was doing he said it was an exercise that he started doing in training with a stiff pole and a bending pole against the wall of a Gymnastics room that he had to use for training when he couldn't jump in the indoor facility because team handball was practicing. He said if he could "move" his grip from 6 steps to the front of the pit that he was confident that in the meet he would be capable of a certain grip and potential height in the competition.

dj

[altius]

I got it straight from Vitali when I met him for the first time in Canberra in 1985. Shows how important he thought it was!

[zachwinters156]

Zach's grip from his six step/stiff pole is 10'6"-8"…. Referencing my chart you get an average grip for a 10'8" takeoff of 13'-5" and an average vault of 14'0"….

PR is only 13' but thats probably due to inefficiencies with my top half, but the rest of the information is right. (take off and grip)

[golfdane]

IMHO is it sheer coincidence, that the numbers match. Sure, improving your 6step grip height on a stiff pole will have influence on your take-off point, simply because you improve your application of upwards force, but I wouldn't give damn, if the numbers matches exactly.

[dj]

Hey

I actually think what Petrov tried to emphasize was that the "numbers" are important and proportionate according to physics… and those portions are an indicator of your efficiency.

An increase in the stiff pole drill should indicate a potential increase in the - full approach bending pole jump height.

dj

[golfdane]

Hey

I actually think what Petrov tried to emphasize was that the "numbers" are important and proportionate according to physics… and those portions are an indicator of your efficiency.

An increase in the stiff pole drill should indicate a potential increase in the - full approach bending pole jump height.

dj

I don't disagree with that, but if the numbers match (take-off mark and 6-step stiffpole grip height), is it just coincidence (there's no EXACT physical correlation).

Is the test relevant, if you have a flat take-off (it would require you to change technique to stiffpole that high, I think)? I have a hard time thinking Lavillenie can grip +4.20 something, without have way much more upward drive at take-off doing this drill, than he has on his full jumps.

[dj]

hey

I haven't seen the "numbers" (scientific data for his jumps) but from video I feel he is too flat.. I feel this a product of a stretch/reach..

If you stretch, reach or over stride it is virtually impossible to have an upward "impulse"…
in any/all events that you need and "impulse" to transfer the momentum or force...........
a stretched step gets the hips out of position so you can't "impulse" up correctly…

I have seen many vaulters that can do the stiff pole drill... with tight "20/20" type steps and grip high…. but then when they go to the runaway they stretch and cant' transfer properly.. so the drill to jump doesn't ""compute" correctly.

In the vault that transfer "impulse" must be up and in, or in and up.. a balance..

The pole size becomes a big issue with a flat takeoff…. Even if the takeoff is out (?free)

if 4.20 is Lavillenie's grip on his 6 step stiff pole….. a takeoff of 4.20 would translate to a 4.90/5m (depending on reach height of course) grip on his full run.. I would think he has gripped this high and taken off at 4.20 or more…

dj

[golfdane]

If you stretch, reach or over stride it is virtually impossible to have an upward "impulse"…
dj

You can have an upward impulse (just ask any high jumper). Unfortunately, to much forward momentum is lost (while being converted to upward momentum), and it really messes up the ability to swing efficiently.

The video where Renaud blows up a pole, shows how flat he is. http://youtu.be/IMUCpFdwitk Check his top hand. No upward motion before the pole starts to lift him. It starts to dip, and then blows. Amazing video.

This is my son. He reaches a bit, but have good upwards impulse. He has a 6-step grip height around 3,75m-3,80m. His take-off is normally around 3,90m-4,00. The pole is 15", flex 18.0. He's 5'8, and he's 17 years old on the video. Working on improving his swing (which in part is caused by his reach (plus he's letting go of the tension in the core)). http://youtu.be/kyH1PJoGQB4

[dj]

you have made two very, very important points...

You can have an upward impulse (just ask any high jumper). Unfortunately, too much forward momentum is lost

First on this point, yes totally agree… like you said forward momentum is lost…it's lost because the hips and spine have to "catch up" with the reached ball of the foot… and come into "alignment" before the correct "impulse" can take place. Or you can "blow' right on through like Lavillenie. Long jumpers can simply "sail" flat and usually finish the landing weak… pole vaulters get "snatched" and in this case it was extreme enough to have an "explosive".

Working on improving his swing (which in part is caused by his reach)

This is such a great point that so many jumpers and coaches have been overlooking..

I see more of this on the women's side than men's… but see coaches going crazy with their jumper "refusing" to go vertical and actually "flag" over the bar.. 9$% of the time it is a stretch step or steps….

If you look at the bottom arm.. whatever direction it goes "up" the hips generally will go the same direction/angle... if the step is stretched the left hand/plant arm usually "reaches forward with it…

if you can get the bottom arm/"fist" to go straight up toward the crossbar (elbow out) you have a good chance of going vertical on the swing…

dj