Need help changing poles

[saylorm3]

I'm currently a college freshman, and i can jump consistently on 14 7s. But, i am having ALOT of difficulty moving to 15s. I jump on a 14' 7" 160, and i weigh 140. I've cleared 16 3 on it at practice before, but it is now becoming too soft for me. Therefore, i've got to move to a 15 150 and 155. My coach tells me that i'm not keeping my hips back long enough, but i know i am driving through by bottom arm well. I dont know what to do, and i feel like i cant reach my full potential on 14 7s. Oh yeah, and my speed is not the problem, if anything its my greatest asset. I would really appreciate some help, cause i'm very frustrated

Any advice, words of wisdom, etc.?

[KirkB]

I'm currently a college freshman, and i can jump consistently on 14 7s. But, i am having ALOT of difficulty moving to 15s. I jump on a 14' 7" 160, and i weigh 140. I've cleared 16 3 on it at practice before, but it is now becoming too soft for me. Therefore, i've got to move to a 15 150 and 155. My coach tells me that i'm not keeping my hips back long enough, but i know i am driving through by bottom arm well. I dont know what to do, and i feel like i cant reach my full potential on 14 7s. Oh yeah, and my speed is not the problem, if anything its my greatest asset. I would really appreciate some help, cause i'm very frustrated

Any advice, words of wisdom, etc.?

Just checking the flex of poles in your range ...

Saylorm3's 2010-01 Poles.JPG (11.22 KiB) Viewed 2711 times

... I would say that your next pole up is either the 14'7" 165 or the 15' 150 or 155 ... as you say. The 14'7" 165 is also a possibility ... which I guess you don't have ... but you didn't say what your grip is. Maybe you're gripping too low on the 15 footer ... below what it was designed for? (See: "Finally an answer? MAYBE" thread re Wall thickness and structural design ... http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/search.php?t=18838)

Or maybe getting on the 15 footers is psychological?

If that's not it, then I don't understand why the 15' 150 isn't working for you ... it might be a couple flexes stiffer ... but it's almost exactly the same relative stiffness as your 14'7" 160.

Short of seeing vids of your jumps, the only other info I can rely on is your coach's opinion ...

My coach tells me that i'm not keeping my hips back long enough, but i know i am driving through by bottom arm well.

I presume your meant "my bottom arm" instead of "by bottom arm". It's almost the same meaning, so it sounds like you're a tuck/shooter? You press with your bottom arm on/after takeoff ... and you keep pressing "in order to "keep your hips back" ... and bend the pole"?

If that's what you're doing then therein lies your problem ... as you will have already read on many, many other threads here on PVP, this pressing action is actually stalling your swing. It WILL "keep your hips back" ... but that shouldn't be your objective.

Your objective should be to keep the hips MOVING! To buy into this, you need to understand and accept "the continuous chain theory" ... so search for that on PVP and go from there.

Props on clearing 16-3 ... but I'll bet you can go much, much higher with some technical improvements. I know it's hard to break old habits ... and I know it's hard to go against what your coach advises ... you need his buy-in.

I'm hoping that KC will chime in to help you here ... he's going thru a similar technique overhaul ... with very good success so far! And I think he can explain it better than me.

Try to post vids if you can.

Kirk

[rainbowgirl28]

How much are you raising your grip when you move to the longer poles?

[saylorm3]

Thanks alot Kirk. i dont know if its a psycological thing or not, because i have successfully jumped on a 15 145, but its too soft. I agree with what you were saying about keeping my hips in continuous motion, but my coach keeps preaching to me "drive phase, drive phase." and i know that i must have some sort of drive phase to be jumping on poles 20-30lbs (when i jump on 14s i use a 14 170) over my weight. so its just hard to know what to do. I dont have any video that i can acess right now, but i'll try to get on that. I wont vault again till thursday night, so i'll post something here and let you know how it goes.

And rainbow girl, i am holding at the label on the 14 7, and i move one grip higher on the 15.

[rainbowgirl28]

At the label, so I assume around 14'1? Try keeping your grip at 14'1 on the longer pole. Maybe you're just raising your grip too much.

[KirkB]

At the label, so I assume around 14'1? Try keeping your grip at 14'1 on the longer pole. Maybe you're just raising your grip too much.

To move from the 14'7" 160 to the 15' 150 should ... in theory ... be very simple ... altho in practice I realize that you say it's not. What always worked for me was keeping ALL variables EXACTLY the same ... run ... grip ... technique. First, get off a good jump with the 14'7" pole, then ... on your very next jump ... when you're pumped with confidence ... switch to the 15 footer. You should not feel ANY difference ... except for perhaps a slight difference in flex.

If you're not sure of the differences in flex between your poles, then flex them yourself, with 50 pounds of weight hanging in the middle. Use the butt end as one fulcrum, and your grip (14'1"?) as the fulcrum on the other. Measure the amount of deflection in the middle ... where the weight is hanging ... and don't expect the flex to be the same as what the mfr says ... their fulcrums vary for each pole length ... so their flexes vary accordingly. While you're at it, also flex the pole that you last used before the 14'7" one (slightly lighter). This will give you the confidence that the difference in flex is "next to nothing" ... and that you've gone up by "this much flex" before ... so you can do it again.

Regarding the "drive phase" of the vault ... that was an old concept that many old coaches (myself included until recently) have hung onto. The modern-day concept is to do an "elastic pre-stretch" of your body into the C position, and then IMMEDIATELY whip/swing out of it ... without any pause. (I had a very good pre-stretch, but except for my best jumps, I usually paused.) This is not to say that you shouldn't try to drive your chest forwards in the C ... you should. It's just that you should NOT hold that position ... rather, you should have one continuous motion ... from takeoff to pushoff.

There's 2 issues here ... the delay in the "drive phase" and the pressing of the bottom arm. What I covered above only concerns the "drive phase". But to truly turn your swing into one continuous motion, you also need to relax your bottom arm so that your body CAN swing freely ... WITHOUT keeping your hips behind the pole. Or to put this another way, you should stretch your hips behind the pole INSTANTANEOUSLY ... by your elastic pre-stretch ... and then as you swing you DO NOT try to keep them behind the pole any longer.

This is easier said than done ... so don't expect instant results by modifying the technique of the bottom half of your swing this way ... it takes months and years of practice to perfect ... but it's worth it!

Kirk

[rainbowgirl28]

Also, how deep are you landing/where are your standards when the 14'7 pole gets too soft?

[saylorm3]

I'm defintely going to work on keeping my hips in motion from takeoff to swing, and change poles right after a good jump on the 14 7, then keep my grip the same. I hope its not a psychological thing, because i've never had trouble jumping on new poles before. Thanks for all the help.

The standards are at 80 and i hit it on the way up, my peak height isnt till after i knock off the bar at 80.