Approach Run/Hand above my head

[Ajw118]

Hi everyone,
So i'm about 5'7 and weigh 150-155ish and I've been having some problems with my approach run. I'll hold about 8 or more feet up on a pole and on my run back for 4 steps I'll only make it to be 40 feet and about 48-50 on my 5 step. This distance is obviously very short. I try to run with high knees and a tall chest (since I'm short) but it doesnt seem to be working. I'm also screwing up on getting my hand above my head and getting my chest up and being tall when i jump. Any ideas on how to correct these various problems?

Thanks,
A.J.

[powerplant42]

Pole runs.

[Ajw118]

I just made a recent "discovery" I guess you could say. My run is pretty terrible because I bend over forward, but the problem is I can't run fast when I have my chest up. Would it solve the problem if I simply punched my hips forward so that my body forms a straight line and this way I can get my knees high?

Thanks,
AJ

[powerplant42]

You must strike slightly in front of your COM. Video focused just on your run (with and without the pole) would be greatly helpful... But your chest must be high, your hips must be high, and your knees must be high!

[KirkB]

AJ, judging by your treemo vid http://www.treemo.com/users/Ajw118/channel/item/932408/?treemo-prod=varov6b7eqo1o1pjhr51cdtgf1, it does indeed look like you're hunching your shoulders as you run. As you say, your shoulders are leaning too far forwards, whilst your lower body is not.

I wonder how you run when you don't have a pole in your hands? Can you vid that? Get vid without a pole, but 2 ways ... pretending you're holding the pole (no upper arm movement) ... and with upper arm movement (as if you're in a 100m dash). Even more important than showing us that vid is looking at it yourself ... with your coach ... and analyzing what each run type looks like ... and why. Once you understand the "why" then you can fix it.

In your treemo vid, your run is quite short ... I guess it's the 40 ft that you talk about ... so it's quite natural to be leaning forwards more whilst you're accelerating. However, I think you overdo this a bit. Maybe if you just relaxed more, and ran as if you didn't have a pole in your hands?

Two suggestions ...

1. Relax more (don't tense up the shoulders) ... and if you're going to lean forwards at all, do it with your entire body.

2. Take a look at how you carry the pole. With just a low grip on a light pole ... and a short run ... it's not a big deal ... but when you get to a long run with a heavier pole, you're definitely going to feel the extra weight ... so start to think NOW about how you should gradually drop the pole into the box ... without holding it in any fixed position ... just a gradual drop.

#2 is not your biggest problem today, so don't stress over this. Neither is your "darn Huffman Roll".

#1 is quite important. One way to relax more is to not squeeze the pole so tightly. Just grip it tightly enough so that it won't roll off your fingers.

Kirk

[golfdane]

You must strike slightly in front of your COM. Video focused just on your run (with and without the pole) would be greatly helpful... But your chest must be high, your hips must be high, and your knees must be high!

Running drills, running drills, running drills. I call it sitting in a bucket. Valuable height is lost, and the power of your leg for each stride, is not fully transferred to the rest of your body. Makes it so much harder to lift the knees (I could quote Bill Bowerman from the film "Without Limits", but I probably shouldn't ).

Search youtube for running drills.
Many of them can be done with a pole, but that shouldn't be your main priority until your run is decent.

[Ajw118]

You must strike slightly in front of your COM. Video focused just on your run (with and without the pole) would be greatly helpful... But your chest must be high, your hips must be high, and your knees must be high!

Running drills, running drills, running drills. I call it sitting in a bucket. Valuable height is lost, and the power of your leg for each stride, is not fully transferred to the rest of your body. Makes it so much harder to lift the knees (I could quote Bill Bowerman from the film "Without Limits", but I probably shouldn't ).

Search youtube for running drills.
Many of them can be done with a pole, but that shouldn't be your main priority until your run is decent.

Haha! I know what movie you are talking about! That's actually what inspired me to make the observation in my video! I tried the run with my hips forward today in practice and my coach said it looked a lot better. When I can, I play on starting to use this new run. Hopefully, it will prevent me from being inside on every single jump.

[bel142]

Unless someone has some empirical evidence that shows how having foot strike in front of the center of mass should be striven for while running, I am going to have to, pronounce... declaim... and call shenanigans.

As for getting the hand over the head. Get used to dropping the pole, stand still... and practice dropping the pole tip, allowing for the pole to free fall while in your hands, then when you know how that feels, start allowing the back (top) hand to press forward and up.

The object is to get the top arm extended at or before the pole tip hits the ground, while having your bicep around your temple/edge of the eyebrow, learning this timing eventually can lead to learning the infamous jump hit we so often hear about.

Then once that is learned start by adding in one left (two step), start with the dropping of the pole and when the pole gets to about parallel or the pole tip is at around chest level, take one step and take off (in grass)... Then add two lefts, then three (6 steps)... and so on... The punch line is we always want to train for Jump --> hit, and not Hit then jump...

cheers,
bel

[powerplant42]

Unless someone has some empirical evidence that shows how having foot strike in front of the center of mass should be striven for while running, I am going to have to, pronounce... declaim... and call shenanigans.

What!? That's like, rule #1!

[golfdane]

Unless someone has some empirical evidence that shows how having foot strike in front of the center of mass should be striven for while running, I am going to have to, pronounce... declaim... and call shenanigans.

What!? That's like, rule #1!

Nahhh. Ideally, a sprinter strikes the ground under his CoM. Just remember, that a pole vaulter's CoM is slightly in front of his body due to the weight of the pole (and not even Usain is fast enough to have a totally free poledrop over the entire run).

[KirkB]

Unless someone has some empirical evidence that shows how having foot strike in front of the center of mass should be striven for while running, I am going to have to, pronounce... declaim... and call shenanigans.

What!? That's like, rule #1!

Nahhh. Ideally, a sprinter strikes the ground under his CoM. Just remember, that a pole vaulter's CoM is slightly in front of his body due to the weight of the pole (and not even Usain is fast enough to have a totally free poledrop over the entire run).

Optimally, the pole is balanced directly above where the CoM would normally be without a pole ... so that the weight of the pole DOESN'T shift the CoM. This becomes more and more important as you get closer and closer to the box.

This is a physics principle ... unrelated to how slow or fast you run down the runway!

Kirk

[golfdane]

Unless someone has some empirical evidence that shows how having foot strike in front of the center of mass should be striven for while running, I am going to have to, pronounce... declaim... and call shenanigans.

What!? That's like, rule #1!

Nahhh. Ideally, a sprinter strikes the ground under his CoM. Just remember, that a pole vaulter's CoM is slightly in front of his body due to the weight of the pole (and not even Usain is fast enough to have a totally free poledrop over the entire run).

Optimally, the pole is balanced directly above where the CoM would normally be without a pole ... so that the weight of the pole DOESN'T shift the CoM. This becomes more and more important as you get closer and closer to the box.

This is a physics principle ... unrelated to how slow or fast you run down the runway!

Kirk

Only if the pole drop is COMPLETELY free, will the CoM be undisturbed. You can balance the pole so that your CoM is straight ahead, instead of to one of the sides, but if carried at an angle, will the CoM move in front of you. I postulate, that not even Bubka had a completele free pole drop. Try for yourself.
Balance the pole on one hand. Let it drop slightly forward and start running. How many steps are there from 45 degrees to the pole tip touches the ground?