That darn Huffman Roll....

[Ajw118]

Kirk and Varska,
I appreciate your help. Thank you. I will bring this up with my coach.

In the meantime until I learn how to vault correctly, at meets I will simply try to kick over the bar with my feet together and turn my hips to the side. Hopefully, I'll have enough momentum to carry me down and away from the bar without hitting it with my feet or chest on the way down.

Thanks again,
AJ

[KirkB]

... In the meantime until I learn how to vault correctly, at meets I will simply try to kick over the bar with my feet together and turn my hips to the side. Hopefully, I'll have enough momentum to carry me down and away from the bar without hitting it with my feet or chest on the way down.

AJ, you forgot one thing ... LOWER YOUR GRIP! That way, you WILL have sufficient momentum to clear the bar with standards at 80!

Raise your grip again ONLY when you're blowing thru!

I will simply try to kick over the bar

Actually, you don't even need to "kick over the bar". You just need to let go (at the right time, of course), and your momentum will sail you over! If that doesn't work, then lower your grip SOME MORE!

Kirk

[Ajw118]

What if my coach places my standards at 20?

And if I do let go at the right time and sail over, then will a turn be necessary?

[master]

I can't be sure of this, but it appears to me that your left elbow is on the outside of the pole (the pole ends up in your armpit). If that is indeed the case, it contributes to much of what your body does from that point on. Make sure that as your body swings by the pole, your left elbow is tucked tight against your left side and the pole is outside of that.

When your body reaches the point that your armpit hits the pole, it can't continue any swing you might have had. And that happens just about when your body is horizontal (back to the ground). Also, your body will spin around the pole so that you end up with your feet pointing to the left side of the pit instead of them pointing to the back of the pit.

Take a look at your video and see if you can understand what I'm trying to describe. You can work on getting your elbow tight to your body by simply doing popups and trying to get your body upside down and straight along side the pole. Stay that way while you are falling into the pit. You should be inline with the pole and it should be facing straight thru the pit, in the same line as the runway.

Here is the man doing that drill. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oUADXLvJNg
If you look closely, Bubka lets his left elbow go around the pole for an instant. But when his swing takes him past the pole, he pulls his elbow inside so he can get his swing all the way to vertical and past.

What do you think?

- master

[Ajw118]

I can't be sure of this, but it appears to me that your left elbow is on the outside of the pole (the pole ends up in your armpit). If that is indeed the case, it contributes to much of what your body does from that point on. Make sure that as your body swings by the pole, your left elbow is tucked tight against your left side and the pole is outside of that.

When your body reaches the point that your armpit hits the pole, it can't continue any swing you might have had. And that happens just about when your body is horizontal (back to the ground). Also, your body will spin around the pole so that you end up with your feet pointing to the left side of the pit instead of them pointing to the back of the pit.

Take a look at your video and see if you can understand what I'm trying to describe. You can work on getting your elbow tight to your body by simply doing popups and trying to get your body upside down and straight along side the pole. Stay that way while you are falling into the pit. You should be inline with the pole and it should be facing straight thru the pit, in the same line as the runway.

Here is the man doing that drill. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oUADXLvJNg
If you look closely, Bubka lets his left elbow go around the pole for an instant. But when his swing takes him past the pole, he pulls his elbow inside so he can get his swing all the way to vertical and past.

What do you think?

- master

Master,
That may be the best advice I've heard in a long time.

I looked at my videos and some older ones (let me know if you want to see those because I think those would be great examples) and I think I understand what you mean. If I'm interpreting this correctly, what I must do is keep my left elbow tucked into my side as I swing up which will keep me going straight. If so, should my wrist be facing to the left of the pit, or towards the back of the back?

Thank you,
AJ

[powerplant42]

This should happen naturally if you're swinging correctly. Maybe pay some attention to it, but DO NOT STRESS OVER IT.

Talking from direct observation and experience here... for once.

[KirkB]

What if my coach places my standards at 20?

Placing them at 20 doesn't solve your fundamental problem ... of losing momentum and flagging out. Your goal should be to learn how to vault properly ... so that you can clear 10-12 feet. It's not important whether or not you can clear the bar at 9-3 just by adjusting the standards.

Trust me ... you should adjust your GRIP ... not your STANDARDS. I'm confident that 99% of the coaches on PVP would say the same ... so your coach would be outnumbered by a long shot on this one. Just tell him that the guys on PVP are advising you to set your standards to 80 and to lower your grip to solve your "flagging out" problem ... and see what he says to that.

And if I do let go at the right time and sail over, then will a turn be necessary?

At 9 feet, the turn isn't very important. There's lots of vaulters that go 10-11 feet without a turn ... nothing wrong with that. One thing in common with these vaulters (that don't turn) is that they fly over the bar and quite far into the pit ... sometimes to the BACK of the PLZ. This is GOOD ... and is an indication that they can start to raise their grip! Please join this club!

You'll start to turn "naturally" once you start getting over 10-12 feet.

... should my wrist be facing to the left of the pit, or towards the back of the back?

You're over-analyzing this ... which can lead to "analysis paralysis" ... meaning that in the middle of your vault, you're not going to be thinking in this fine of detail anyway, so it doesn't matter. Just plant your pole with your wrists pointing in the "natural, most comfortable" position, then swing "naturally" ... and your body will "do the right thing".

Kirk

[Ajw118]

Kirk,
Thank you. I will definitely try to do this during practice during the spring when I have practice more consistently.

The reason I'm pressing so much, and perhaps I should have explained this earlier, is I have meets on January 9th, 13th, 16th, 23rd, 25th, possibly 27th, and possibly February 8th.

All of these meets will have vaulting and, although I know there is no silver bullet, I need a quick fix on how to clear a bar so I don't waste all of these golden oppurtunities to jump and clear bars. I worked very hard over the summer to fix my plant and my swing and although there are still many flaws, I feel like I've gotten better. If I walk out of every meet mad because I missed doing the same old stupid flagging out, I will not be happy.

If you know of any simple way, like my suggestion to throw my legs over the bar and then down and turn, those would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you everyone,
AJ

[KirkB]

Kirk,
Thank you. I will definitely try to do this during practice during the spring when I have practice more consistently.

By then, you will have wasted your entire indoor season! [sigh]

... I need a quick fix on how to clear a bar so I don't waste all of these golden oppurtunities to jump and clear bars. ... If you know of any simple way ... those would be greatly appreciated. ...

OK ... last try ... then I give up ...

AJ ... if you want to improve your PR asap ... before the end of your indoor season ... then LOWER YOUR GRIP!!!

Don't worry ... by the end of your indoor season ... once you "get it" ... you'll probably have a grip that's higher than the one you have now!

Kirk

[tsorenson]

Kirk and others are giving you good advice. I would have killed to have this kind of coaching when I was learning how to vault!
You are swinging off the ground without finishing your takeoff, keeping you from moving the pole forward. The best way to fix this is to do a lot of stiff pole, "stay back" drills, getting rigid with the body and learning to drive the pole, staying behind it, without swinging. Once you figure this unforgiving drill out and move your grip up (A LOT), then start to swing, not before! Watching Bubka do this drill is misleading...it is very difficult to use the left arm properly at takeoff, drive the pole with both arms up, then swing and move the elbow inside the (stiff) pole so that you can swing past the armpit. Most vaulters who do the "popup" drill cheat by swinging to the right of the pole at takeoff and bending the left arm a lot off the ground so that they don't get stuck "in the armpit." Practicing this will further screw up your takeoff position. You would be better served by not swinging at all until you can grip a lot higher on a stiff pole, staying behind it and centered, which will teach you how to finish the takeoff and move the pole. Drive the pole up strongly with both hands and let your chest or trail leg collide with the pole just as it rotates to vertical. Don't pull with your arms, try to stay long and elastic in the shoulders (your hands will be driven back above and behind your head) and long and rigid with the legs locked in the takeoff position. Once you learn this, all your other problems will be easy to work on. Do ten (or more) of these every time you vault, pushing your grip up, and within a month you will see improvement. Thanks to Rick Baggett and Dan West for helping me learn the importance of this drill.

Just because the people on this website are giving you advice on your ground work/takeoff, don't think that they aren't giving you the right advice to fix the top of your vault. They are. You are wasting your time thinking about anything other than a better takeoff at this point. Don't shortcut yourself by gripping too high or trying to vault with bad habits...do the drills and you will improve! Indoor season should be a time for you to break it down and work on drills/technique. Maybe you should skip your first several meets and just practice, so that you don't cost yourself height later on...
Best of luck,
Tom

[golfdane]

Kirk and others are giving you good advice. I would have killed to have this kind of coaching when I was learning how to vault!
You are swinging off the ground without finishing your takeoff, keeping you from moving the pole forward. The best way to fix this is to do a lot of stiff pole, "stay back" drills, getting rigid with the body and learning to drive the pole, staying behind it, without swinging.

The first thought that came to mind when I saw the video on Treemo, was Alan Launder saying the same phrase over and over again: "Staying behind the pole"

Seen it so many times before. Vaulters being so focused on the bar, that they swing past the chord of the pole before the pole is vertical. The result is often a complete loss of momentum, and they stall short of the bar. The wrong remedy is moving the standards closer.
Kirk has definately given some really good advice: Lower the grip and push the standards to 80.

[master]

Seen it so many times before. Vaulters being so focused on the bar, that they swing past the chord of the pole before the pole is vertical.

It is my understanding that the vaulter should pass the chord of the pole when the chord is approximately 45 degrees from horizontal (halfway between horizontal and vertical.) How does that reconcile with your statement?

In the image below, I've added the red 45 degree line on the second image. Since I can't see the box or pole tip, I can't say for sure this is the image that represents the point in the vault I'm referring to. In fact, I feel the true 45 degree line between top hand and pole tip would actually occur somewhere between the second and third images.

swing_with_45.jpg (45.74 KiB) Viewed 4038 times

- master