That darn Huffman Roll....

[Ajw118]

Kirk,
For some reason, fliggo isn't working for me. I'll get back to you asap with the videos.

Thanks,
AJ

[KirkB]

Hey,
So when I posted this subject here some time ago, people seemed to get offended by me calling what I do on top the Huffman Roll. Yesterday at my first meet, I heard a better name that perhaps some people will be able to visualize better: scissor kicking

It is probably caused by some stupid mental block when I think I can't reach a bar so I try to look like I can make it over, or possibly by a poor plant since I do plant off to the side a little bit, or could it just be me not holding form on top? What do I do to fix it?

Thanks,
AJ

AJ finally posted his vid on treemo.com here: http://www.treemo.com/users/Ajw118/channel/item/932408/?treemo-prod=varov6b7eqo1o1pjhr51cdtgf1

A picture is worth a thousand words, and we can now see what AJ's trying to describe.

AJ, it looks to me like you're stalling out (not enough momentum to finish the vault), and you're flagging out (shooting your legs forwards ... towards the bungee) ... in a "last-ditch" attempt to clear it.

The problem as I see it AJ, is that you're swinging upside down and then you see the bungee ... but you don't have enough momentum to swing completely upside down and then clear it ... so you flag out in desperation to clear it. This is unfortunate, becuz the sight of the bungee is affecting your technique. If I were you, I'd practice a lot more WITHOUT the bungee ... working on swinging upside down, and then rotating as if you're going over a bungee (or bar). I think that with the bungee gone, you'll focus more on your swing and inversion. Try that.

As far as the Huffman Roll or Scissor Kick goes, I wouldn't call what you do either one ... since you're not actually CLEARING the bungee with any certain technique. If you really want to put a name to it, I'd say that you're prematurely FLAGGING OUT. Besides improving your technique, you can fix this problem by lowering your grip, speeding up your run, or both. You barely have the pole speed to make the pit right now. That's why you're flagging out ... so lower your grip and you'll find that you'll swing upside down much faster and easier.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

I think you're pulling during your swing... Does anyone else see this? KB?

[Ajw118]

One of the reasons I was running slow is it was my second consecutive day jumping in 100+ degree weather. Besides the slow speed, anyway else I could fix the flagging out?

I think it is a desperation move (mostly mental in my opinion), but perhaps if I continue moving my hands forward and then extending? That would stop the pulling too, wouldn't it?

[KirkB]

I think you're pulling during your swing... Does anyone else see this? KB?

Yeh, he's pulling. AJ, you need to learn how to swing LONG ...without shrugging your shoulders. You can learn this best on highbar, rings, or rope.

One of the reasons I was running slow is it was my second consecutive day jumping in 100+ degree weather. Besides the slow speed, anyway else I could fix the flagging out?

I think it is a desperation move (mostly mental in my opinion), but perhaps if I continue moving my hands forward and then extending? That would stop the pulling too, wouldn't it?

As your speed changes from day to day, you need to change your grip ... or pole weight ... or both.

You need enough speed to clear the bungee with the standards at 80. So if you only have one pole, it's very easy ... just lower your grip until you can clear the bungee at 80. But instead of a bungee up near your grip, put it at about 6 feet. Then raise it a foot at a time until it's hard to clear ... adjusting your grip as you go up. Don't be too anxious in moving the bungee up ... this process might take several practice sessions ... or even weeks.

Don't be tempted to move the standards in. If you can't run fast enough to clear even a low bungee at 80, you need to lower your grip ... then gradually raise it as your technique improves. Part of this technique improvement is swinging LONG ... without "pulling" until you're upside down.

Kirk

[Ajw118]

You need enough speed to clear the bungee with the standards at 80. So if you only have one pole, it's very easy ... just lower your grip until you can clear the bungee at 80. But instead of a bungee up near your grip, put it at about 6 feet. Then raise it a foot at a time until it's hard to clear ... adjusting your grip as you go up. Don't be too anxious in moving the bungee up ... this process might take several practice sessions ... or even weeks.

Don't be tempted to move the standards in. If you can't run fast enough to clear even a low bungee at 80, you need to lower your grip ... then gradually raise it as your technique improves. Part of this technique improvement is swinging LONG ... without "pulling" until you're upside down.

Kirk[/quote]

Unfortunately, this isn't really practical. I don't have time to do this and I don't think my coach would be up for it. If i continue to move my hands forward, pull up and then turn, will that solve the problem? I've been doing this desperation move for a long time and has caused untold amounts of frustration and many missed bars.

[KirkB]

AJ, I'm a little disappointed in your reply. You asked for my help, and now you're not willing to take my advice. I thought that the reason you started this thread was becuz you wanted to rid yourself of "That darn Huffman Roll".

Unfortunately, this isn't really practical. I don't have time to do this and I don't think my coach would be up for it.

PV takes years and years to master. If you "don't have time to do this", then I advise you to follow your coach's advice. He's the one that you should be leaning on for advice re this. But I assumed that since you started this thread, you and your coach haven't been able to fix this ... or even know what to call it.

If i continue to move my hands forward, pull up and then turn, will that solve the problem?

You've mentioned this idea of "move my hands forward" more than once on this thread. I've avoided responding to this idea, becuz I don't know exactly what YOU mean by that. To me, it could mean a number of things, and I think you need more basic "general advice", rather than "specific advice" about one particular aspect of your vault.

Even the shoulder shrugging (pulling) issue was a bit too detailed for what I think you needed at this point in your career. But since PP mentioned it, I replied about it. Really, you have A LOT to learn about ALL aspects of your PV technique ... and you need a lot of practice ... in the gym as well as on the pole ... so I'll continue to refrain from specific advice to fix your flagging out problem ... other than what I've already advised. Remember that THERE'S NO SILVER BULLET! PV is hard! Very hard! You have to put a LOT of effort into your training before you can learn to vault high. To say that "you don't have time" is a cop-out!

I've been doing this desperation move for a long time and has caused untold amounts of frustration and many missed bars.

Yes AJ, I realize that. Thus my suggestion to either take down the bungee altogether or put it at a low height ... to get your mind off the bungee so that you can focus on your SWING! Sorry, but if you're not willing to even TRY what I'm suggesting, then I can't help you much. Ultimately, it's up to you and your coach to solve this.

Maybe someone else can provide AJ with some ideas different (preferably BETTER) than mine. [sigh]

Kirk

[powerplant42]

KB's spot on. Standards further back + lower grip = long-term improvement. NO SHORTCUTS!

Take a step back, breathe, thiiiiiiink........ think a little more, and then reply.

[varska]

AJ, looking at your video, you are not in a position that you'll be able to pull up and turn - you are not inverted. It sounds as if you're looking for that one move you can make at the top that's going to allow you to start clearing bars.The reason you're not getting inverted appears that you don't have much of a trail leg swing. The reason you don't have much of a trail leg swing is because it isn't positioned properly (stretched out long behind you) at the plant. The reason it isn't stretched out at the plant is that it doesn't appear you're jumping up and getting into an elastic stretch upon takeoff. One of the reasons that isn't happening is because your run isn't very upright, controlled or accelerating. Really, don't get frustrated, it's a painstaking process but if your plant is weak, there is nothing you can do in the air to fix it.

[Ajw118]

I understand all this and that I have serious flaws in my vault. But what I need to know is when I'm jumping, despite all the flaws, what can I do to clear the bar?

Even if I follow all other advice, I still don't know what to do up top.

I don't mean to sound snotty, I really appreciate everyone's help. It's just that a simple, straight forward answer on what specifically I can do in the meantime while I work on all of my technique would be greatly appreciated.

[varska]

Okay, AJ, you wore me down...
Usually I don't like to divulge the secret, bar-clearing move until you have paid your dues by doing hours and hours of worthless drills.

Seriously, up top you need to drive your shoulders back, punch your hips up and pull while staying aligned with the drive force of the pole. This will work better if you are actually inverted. As far as getting inverted - see previous posts. Good luck.

[KirkB]

... This will work better if you are actually inverted. As far as getting inverted - see previous posts. Good luck.

AJ, we're serious about our advice. Varska is right ... if you're not inverted, and you don't have sufficient momentum to invert AND clear the bar with standards at 80 ... then there's no secret "tricks" that you can do to prevent yourself from "flagging out".

The reason you flag out is becuz you don't have the momentum to completely invert.

Again ... lower your grip ... improve your run, plant, takeoff, and swing ... lower the bar (or jump without a bar) ... and practice ... practice ... practice.

Once you can swing more upside down (it doesn't have to be COMPLETELY upside down ... it just has to be more upside down than on your vid) ... with sufficient momentum to clear the bar at 80 (no matter how low the bar is) ... then you can start raising your grip again.

When you start knocking the bar off on the way up ... with standards at 80 ... that's called "blowing thru" ... and that's GOOD! So gradually raise your grip and raise the bar (as long as you're clearing it) ... emphasizing PROPER TECHNIQUE at all times. Don't worry about it if you're not raising the bar every practice. Stay at 6 or 7 feet for awhile. Then 8 feet. Learning the proper PV technique takes TIME ... lots of time!

You need to learn proper technique and speed up your run, plant, takeoff and swing. Until you do, your best choice is to lower your grip until you can clear the bungee ... at a LOW height ... with standards at 80.

If you're unwilling to go thru this process ... and if your coach is also unwilling for you to try this ... then I can't help you anymore. I've exhausted my list of suggestions to you ... there's no shortcuts!

Kirk