High hands with short poles

[varska]

We're working on takeoffs and plants right now. Emphasis on 'being tall' and getting both hands up high on the plant. We've been gripping about a foot lower than normal and going from 3 lefts. The problem seems to be that with a lower grip, than angle of the pole is higher at the plant and it's nearly impossible to get that bottom arm punched up high on a low pole grip. Does that make any sense? Would it be better to grip at the normal height but use a softer pole?

Also, we're working on moving the takeoff point out. Is it counterproductive to do these drills with a lower grip? My thought is that reconditioning the athlete to feel that the new takeoff point is 'normal' will feel all screwed up when she's holding a foot higher in competition.

[VaultPurple]

We're working on takeoffs and plants right now. Emphasis on 'being tall' and getting both hands up high on the plant. We've been gripping about a foot lower than normal and going from 3 lefts. The problem seems to be that with a lower grip, than angle of the pole is higher at the plant and it's nearly impossible to get that bottom arm punched up high on a low pole grip. Does that make any sense? Would it be better to grip at the normal height but use a softer pole?

Also, we're working on moving the takeoff point out. Is it counterproductive to do these drills with a lower grip? My thought is that reconditioning the athlete to feel that the new takeoff point is 'normal' will feel all screwed up when she's holding a foot higher in competition.

Never punch the bottom arm in the first place! You should use your left arm as little as possible at the plant. If you watch videos of Isi or Bubka right at the plant you will notice that their left arm is always bent.

Just jump and keep right arm high and left relaxed and you can swing right through and off top of pole!

[rainbowgirl28]

With a lower grip, the bottom hand will be closer to the head (a more bent arm) due to the angle of the pole. To force it would cause blocking. It's not that the bottom arm _does_ anything drastically different, it's just that the difference in angles makes the appearance different. This is why it is not good for high school coaches to try and coach their vaulters to look exactly like Bubka. They should try to _do_ things like Bubka, but it looks different when done by a novice athlete on a small pole.

I strongly recommend the book Beginner to Bubka, it will help you understand better

[varska]

Hey Becca - I got B2B for Christmas, so I'm working through it. The more I thought about this after I posted was that if the step is on, the grip is a good width and the top hand is reaching high - then the position of the bottom hand isn't all that relevant, which I think goes along with what you're saying.

VaultPurple, I probably shouldn't have used the term 'punch' - I know the evils of blocking out - I just wanted to convey getting both hands high.

Speaking of steps being on, any thoughts on trying to recondition an athlete to get their takeoff farther out? I know it's pretty common after moving back on the runway to 'stride out' the last step or 2 to hit that takeoff point that feels comfortable, even though it's under. In trying to establish a new comfort point in the takeoff, is it counterproductive to work on shorter poles?

[dj]

good morning,

i would like to suggest you use the "Grip to "MID" from my chart... with minor 'sight" adjustments either in or out...

If they are stretching the last steps... move them in and "force" them to "chop" to keep the steps tight and equal...

this should create the correct feel and posture that leads to and "out' takeoff..

you can do this with all drills and vaults... even the sand pit drill...

what you are doing is re-enforcing the rhythm, posture, postion and impluse at the takeoff....... throught out your whole vault training program..

dj

[KYLE ELLIS]

Hey Varska I would like to give a different outlook on your drills, because I don't like some of the previous comments about the hands at takeoff. BOTH HANDS should be reaching as high as possible before the tip hits. You should extend through both shoulders, planting with a low "soft" left arm is just as bad or worse than blocking out. Once the tip hits the vaulter drives the chest through the shoulders in an "open" position; this is when the bottom elbow flexes out. The bottom arm is very important in plant, takeoff, and initiation of the swing.
Take a look at this video, what are his arms doing before the tip hits?? And it doesn't matter how low your gripping, bent or straight pole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oUADXLvJNg

[varska]

Hey Kyle, thanks for the video. Incredible. Here's my takeaway from the info given here - once the vaulter has their takeoff on, the focus should be on jumping/punching the pole to vertical (and beyond) at the moment the pole hits the box. For a world class vaulter, both hands will be high in the air, for a HS vaulter - even a high level athlete - the focus should be on the end result of forcefully jumping the pole to vertical with both hands. Making a young vaulter think too much about the role of the bottom arm is going to invite problems.

The video at 0:15 is a thing of beauty.

[KYLE ELLIS]

Well to make things simple, if the vaulter continues to extend up through both shoulders and plants in the center of the body it is impossible to block out.

[KirkB]

To keep this simple and to the point, let me just say that I like this comment ...

... Making a young vaulter think too much about the role of the bottom arm is going to invite problems. ...

... better than this comment ...

... The bottom arm is very important in ... initiation of the swing. ...

I recognize that there's many different ways for a coach to explain to a vaulter what to do with his bottom hand, so mine is just one way. I say ...

"Once you jump off the ground, try to use your bottom arm only for balance ... nothing else.

... and ...

"You want the pole to bend from the force of the top hand ... so you have to stretch your body all the way from your trail leg to your top hand ... and initiate your swing from there. Don't put any more weight on the bottom arm than you have to."

If the vaulter isn't strong enough to do this, I get them in the gym ... highbar, rings, rope. It's also easier to teach this technique there.

Kirk

[joebro391]

remove our speculation from the equation and try to post video. -6P

[KYLE ELLIS]

To keep this simple and to the point, let me just say that I like this comment ...

... Making a young vaulter think too much about the role of the bottom arm is going to invite problems. ...

... better than this comment ...

... The bottom arm is very important in ... initiation of the swing. ...

I recognize that there's many different ways for a coach to explain to a vaulter what to do with his bottom hand, so mine is just one way. I say ...

"Once you jump off the ground, try to use your bottom arm only for balance ... nothing else.

... and ...

"You want the pole to bend from the force of the top hand ... so you have to stretch your body all the way from your trail leg to your top hand ... and initiate your swing from there. Don't put any more weight on the bottom arm than you have to."

If the vaulter isn't strong enough to do this, I get them in the gym ... highbar, rings, rope. It's also easier to teach this technique there.

Kirk

Kirk you can swing faster and more powerfully using both arms, I say once you leave the ground using both arms.... Watch the video, you can clearly see this & I am not talking about blocking off. I know you believe that the focus should be on swinging the trail leg, so understand we are coming from different idea's.

[KirkB]

Kirk you can swing faster and more powerfully using both arms, I say once you leave the ground using both arms.... Watch the video, you can clearly see this & I am not talking about blocking off. I know you believe that the focus should be on swinging the trail leg, so understand we are coming from different idea's.

Yes, you can look at the downswing as either initiated by the arms or by the trail leg ... and as I said before I prefer to emphasize the trail leg ... but a coach can emphasize the arms instead ... without being "wrong". My experience is just that when the arms are emphasized, the hips pass the chord too early. The athlete forgets about the power of the trail leg ... which can lead to a late Whip. Conversely, when the trail leg is emphasized, I think that the arms naturally follow ... without getting ahead of the trail leg swing.

The "middle ground" ... arms and trail leg initiating the downswing TOGETHER ... might be optimal ... but it's not my preference either.

Kirk