PP42's Senior Year Training Blog

[powerplant42]

I hope this is a better demonstration of KB's drill... The last thing I want to do is put up an innaccurate representation of someone's drill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zPQd9SR33Y

There is also a bit of sand work in there. I feel like I'm running a little bit too long. It seems like I'm reaching for the take-off which causes me to be under a tad on occasion and it makes my take-off flatter than it would be otherwise. Plus it makes my knees low. And BOY do I look slow in those 2 steps... Not sure what happened there... Again it might just be from over-striding.

Grip: 11'ish for 1 steps, 11'6"-8"ish for 2 steps.

Tear it up... I'm asking for help so that I can get better. I tough .

[AVC Coach]

I'm really big on practicing like you play. All of our drills simulate what will actually be occuring during a real vault. Are you planning on keeping your drive knee in your chest when you get to the top of a vault? Concentrate less on dropping your shoulders and more on letting your shoulders follow your hips. Feet together, toes toward you at the top.

Your sand vault drills are what I would call sand wedge drills. From 100 yards away, they would probably look pretty good. But from up close, we can see what is actually happening. Your hips are leading the way and the reason they don't pass the pole completely is because your trail leg thigh collides with it 1/2 way through your swing. You seem to be way overgipped for your skill level. Lower the grip at least a foot and move the pole past vertical several times with your hips behind the pole before you raise the grip at all.

That's what I see. Hope this helps!

[powerplant42]

Your hips are leading the way and the reason they don't pass the pole completely is because your trail leg thigh collides with it 1/2 way through your swing.

This is my intention. I don't want my hips to pass the pole at all... At least not until I'm done with the drill.

Because the shock of the take off is reduced and and because the athlete knows that they cannot miss the sand pit - there is less tension in the system and the shoulders stay relaxed.
The athlete must stay behind the pole until it reaches the vertical, if is important because it keeps the body long and the leg positioned correctly for the second phase. One cue is to ask the vaulter to catch the pole on the trailing thigh as they move to maximum height - it may also be useful to encourage them to use the bottom arm - almost completely flexed - to keep pressure on the pole and help them stay behind it.

I really do feel that they look so strange because of the flatness of my take-off (due to the length of my strides). I'll be focussing on that next time.

[rainbowgirl28]

Hey PP42, the problem with keeping your knee to your chest like that is you can't get your hips all the way up. I honestly believe you're just not strong enough to do it properly yet, and that's ok! Work on cheater bubkas and stalders to help build the strength you need to do the swinging drill properly.


I agree with Morry that you're gripping wayyyy too high on those sand pit drills. I know there is video of Isi doing sand drills with a real high grip, but she's also a very advanced vaulter. You're not. I would even say drop your grip 2 feet and work on what Morry said, then slowly raise it.

[powerplant42]

I guess I'm misunderstanding things... Not being defensive, I just feel I need to clarify "what the athlete intends to do".

High bar (stretch-whip): Hit a big nice split. Keep a long trail-leg whipping quickly... Use this intertia to carry my hips up through a "hitch/lock". Keep the drive knee IN FRONT of my trail-leg. (In my experience, this is actually much more difficult to do than letting it drop... Also I had altius coach myself on that very same bar to keep the drive-knee DRIVING "UP OVER THE HEAD"... Remember that there is a bar there as well.)

Sand: Run quickly, tall, and strong. (Didn't do that very well.) Take-off tall with a lot of UP. (Didn't do that so great either.) Stay behind the pole at any cost (until the pole reaches vertical). Grip as HIGH AS I CAN while still rotating the pole to vertical.



Maybe we can go off of those intentions? Or, we can talk about what it is that I should be trying to do instead... If you feel that I'm trying to execute a drill incorrectly (based off of my above analyses), then that's completely different. I'm totally open to discuss my reasoning (which really isn't 'mine' at all) behind all this as well.

[KirkB]

... High bar (stretch-whip): Hit a big nice split. Keep a long trail-leg whipping quickly... Use this intertia to carry my hips up through a "hitch/lock". Keep the drive knee IN FRONT of my trail-leg. (In my experience, this is actually much more difficult to do than letting it drop... Also I had altius coach myself on that very same bar to keep the drive-knee DRIVING "UP OVER THE HEAD"... Remember that there is a bar there as well.)

If that's your INTENT, then I think that's fairly good. The split you refer to is what Butler calls the "elastic stretch". Now that I watched his vid (last year) and AGREE with almost everything that he sez, I think "stretch" is a better word to use than "split".

I like your use of the word "inertia". That's the same way I think of it. Your INTENT should be to get that inertia (or momentum) generated by a long, powerful downswing ... and feel this power as your hips rise up. I think you get this now.

I wouldn't have used the term "hitch/lock" ... it's just not in my vocabulary ... but I guess the INTENT of that part of the drill is OK ... not sure ... it's a trivial part of the drill IMHO (I'm back to saying that what you do after you feel the inertia of your whip isn't critical).

Focussing on keeping the lead knee up is important. If you're lazy about this in this drill, then you're going to be lazy about it in your vaulting technique.

Re the bar being in the way, that's one issue in doing the Stretch Whip Drill on the highbar (you don't have this problem on rings) ... I'll expand on how I handled that issue in the Training thread ... later.

Kirk

[rainbowgirl28]

You're right, the bar is in the way, that's why you can't keep your knee to your chest and extend up all the way.

I think it's more important to practice extending up all the way then it is to practice keeping your knee to your chest, in large part because I think you lack the strength to do so, and if you can't do it on a bar, you're going to have a hard time doing it on a pole.

You keep saying you're strong enough to do a proper swinging bubka... humor me... do one. I don't care what grip you have with your hands, KB is making way too big a deal out of that. Just show me that you are capable of doing it and I'll leave it alone.

[vaulter870]

i noticed that you commented about your run and that people said to fix it but noone offered a way to do so. i would like to make a comment about what i see with your strides on your drills and hopefully offer some tips that can help you get into the right positions (running wise) so that you have a chance to jump up and eliminate the "flat" takeoff.

Sand: Run quickly, tall, and strong. (Didn't do that very well.) Take-off tall with a lot of UP. (Didn't do that so great either.) Stay behind the pole at any cost (until the pole reaches vertical). Grip as HIGH AS I CAN while still rotating the pole to vertical.

this is what you said about you run. i noticed that it was not as tall nor as quick as it could be with some postural and running form ajustments. also "take off with alot of UP" this is almost impossible to do with out having a tall approach with the proper mechanics.

First point i would like to touch on is the very beginning of your run. you start by lowering your hips and reaching with that right leg. When you start your run from any distance it is my opinion that you need to push through the lefts leg and drive the right knee up (for right handers) trying to keep your hips up and your self tall. after your first step you are pretty much stuck "down", you hips are back and you are reaching on every srtide (foot striking the ground in front of hips). this all starts from that first step. if you can start the run well and keep the knees up and feet driving back underneath your hips for the duration of any run you will find your self running taller . this will also set you up to be able to jump off the ground which reaching in front of you will not. I completely agree with AVC Coach with lowering your grip having a focus on moving the pole past vertical on these drills. i feel that the focus on these is to work on getting tall at the take off and keep the pole moving. and in the video you are struggling because you are reaching down the runway and unable to jump up. with the lower grip and the improved mechanics in the run your take-off and jump will benifit greatly. these are just my 2 cents on what i saw and i hope that it can help if you have any questions or want clarification please ask. this is just a surface analysis and simplified explanation i am tired this is all i can give you right now

[kcvault]

This is my intention. I don't want my hips to pass the pole at all... At least not until I'm done with the drill.

The only thing keeping your hips back is the fact that you are catching your leg on the pole. It's good to catch it on the pole but you are completely dependent on it. I think this is mostly due to not jumping up at take off. Lower your grip and do the drill keeping your hips behind the pole with a proper take off once you can no longer hold your hips behind the pole then catch your leg on it. Oh and I agree with RG that you need to learn to do a proper swinging bubka.

[VaultPurple]

This is my intention. I don't want my hips to pass the pole at all... At least not until I'm done with the drill.

The only thing keeping your hips back is the fact that you are catching your leg on the pole. It's good to catch it on the pole but you are completely dependent on it. I think this is mostly due to not jumping up at take off. Lower your grip and do the drill keeping your hips behind the pole with a proper take off once you can no longer hold your hips behind the pole then catch your leg on it. Oh and I agree with RG that you need to learn to do a proper swinging bubka.

KC is exactly right...

And it looks to me like you are just getting ripped off ground because of how high your hand grip is compared to how flat your jump is... A free take off does nothing if you are flat, it actually makes things worse IMO.

Plus... you do not want to lead with your 'Hips', you want to lead with your chest. Let the left arm relax and let the chest come through (almost as if you were imagining pulling the pole tip out of the box/sand why you are in the air).

[AVC Coach]

Tear it up... I'm asking for help so that I can get better. I tough .

PP, you asked for advice. Why not just post some video and tell everyone not to comment since you have a book and you've already got it all figured out. Your signature at the bottom of your posts is absolutely true. You don't know that you don't know!

[powerplant42]

I have an image in my mind of how I want things to look (it IS subject to change). In the sand, the left leg will ALWAYS be catching the pole. I'll put up film from the clinic I did with altius this past summer if you'd all like... We're doing exactly what I'm doing in the vid (although people aren't taking off as flat).

this is what you said about you run. i noticed that it was not as tall nor as quick as it could be with some postural and running form ajustments. also "take off with alot of UP" this is almost impossible to do with out having a tall approach with the proper mechanics.

First point i would like to touch on is the very beginning of your run. you start by lowering your hips and reaching with that right leg. When you start your run from any distance it is my opinion that you need to push through the lefts leg and drive the right knee up (for right handers) trying to keep your hips up and your self tall. after your first step you are pretty much stuck "down", you hips are back and you are reaching on every srtide (foot striking the ground in front of hips). this all starts from that first step. if you can start the run well and keep the knees up and feet driving back underneath your hips for the duration of any run you will find your self running taller . this will also set you up to be able to jump off the ground which reaching in front of you will not. I completely agree with AVC Coach with lowering your grip having a focus on moving the pole past vertical on these drills. i feel that the focus on these is to work on getting tall at the take off and keep the pole moving. and in the video you are struggling because you are reaching down the runway and unable to jump up. with the lower grip and the improved mechanics in the run your take-off and jump will benifit greatly. these are just my 2 cents on what i saw and i hope that it can help if you have any questions or want clarification please ask. this is just a surface analysis and simplified explanation i am tired this is all i can give you right now

The trap is that one wants to feel like they're going 'fast' right out of the back... Then tallness is compromised and the take-off gets flat and you end up having a lower take-off velocity. We've had a thread about that before, and I remember that I argued against the 'competition mindset' during these sorts of drills. I'll DEFINITELY be focussing on my run during my next session. Thanks!