Carbon Weaves Breaking?

[KirkB]

Here's a 125 lb vaulter snapping a 140 lb Carbon Weave at NON ...

I'd be cautious about thinking that the design of the pole's at fault. It looked to me on that jump that the break was quite high up ... higher than I would have expected ... and that she wasn't really bending it all that much. Perhaps the pole had a nick in it ... possibly caused by hitting a standard? It seems plausible, since it broke that high up.

Kirk

[varska]

Kirk wrote:

I'd be cautious about thinking that the design of the pole's at fault. It looked to me on that jump that the break was quite high up ... higher than I would have expected ... and that she wasn't really bending it all that much. Perhaps the pole had a nick in it ... possibly caused by hitting a standard? It seems plausible, since it broke that high up.

I hope you're right, Kirk. We just bought a Carbon Weave 145. I had the opportunity to chat briefly with vtcoach and we are going to make a concerted effort to take real good care of the poles (no more soft bags on the bus floor). I know Gill has invested a great deal of money in this pole's development and i don't really believe it's a defective design, but it does seem they are less forgiving of any mistreatment.

[rainbowgirl28]

I hope you're right, Kirk. We just bought a Carbon Weave 145. I had the opportunity to chat briefly with vtcoach and we are going to make a concerted effort to take real good care of the poles (no more soft bags on the bus floor). I know Gill has invested a great deal of money in this pole's development and i don't really believe it's a defective design, but it does seem they are less forgiving of any mistreatment.

This has long been a problem with carbons of any brand (less resistance to nicks and scratches), though I think the weaves tolerate them slightly better as the carbon fiber is woven, not unidirectional.

Nonetheless, any pole can break if nicked or scratched, fiberglass or carbon, so it is certainly worth investing in good equipment for transporting them, and making sure vaulters are taking good care of them.

[golfdane]

Here's a 125 lb vaulter snapping a 140 lb Carbon Weave at NON ...

I'd be cautious about thinking that the design of the pole's at fault. It looked to me on that jump that the break was quite high up ... higher than I would have expected ... and that she wasn't really bending it all that much. Perhaps the pole had a nick in it ... possibly caused by hitting a standard? It seems plausible, since it broke that high up.

Kirk

Sure she's 125???

I agree with Kirk. It actually breaks in 2 places. The first break is very high, and the pole does not seem overbent, nor does the vaulter manipulate the pole in a way that might load it excessively.

Carbon fibers are stiffer and more brittle than glass fibers, and therefore more susceptible to nicks and dings. I highly doubt that weaves are more susceptible to nicks and dings due to the weave design alone. If anything, the design (the weave) allows for less material (they are light, even for a carbon pole), which makes them a bit too vulnerable??

Nordic Evolution poles seems to be a combination af carbon and glass. From what I've seen, is the carbon layer protected by a glass layer. Haven't heard of any Evo's breaking (but then again, this thread is the first I've seen where the Weave's are discussed).

[varska]

Sure she's 125???

Vaulter in question wants to know what the heck THAT's supposed to mean? ;-)

[rainbowgirl28]

Carbon fibers are stiffer and more brittle than glass fibers, and therefore more susceptible to nicks and dings. I highly doubt that weaves are more susceptible to nicks and dings due to the weave design alone. If anything, the design (the weave) allows for less material (they are light, even for a carbon pole), which makes them a bit too vulnerable??

Nordic Evolution poles seems to be a combination af carbon and glass. From what I've seen, is the carbon layer protected by a glass layer. Haven't heard of any Evo's breaking (but then again, this thread is the first I've seen where the Weave's are discussed).

All carbon poles are a mixture of layers of carbon fiber and fiberglass. The weaves have a higher ration of carbon to fiberglass, that is why they are lighter.

[golfdane]

Carbon fibers are stiffer and more brittle than glass fibers, and therefore more susceptible to nicks and dings. I highly doubt that weaves are more susceptible to nicks and dings due to the weave design alone. If anything, the design (the weave) allows for less material (they are light, even for a carbon pole), which makes them a bit too vulnerable??

Nordic Evolution poles seems to be a combination af carbon and glass. From what I've seen, is the carbon layer protected by a glass layer. Haven't heard of any Evo's breaking (but then again, this thread is the first I've seen where the Weave's are discussed).

All carbon poles are a mixture of layers of carbon fiber and fiberglass. The weaves have a higher ration of carbon to fiberglass, that is why they are lighter.

True, but on Weave FX's, the carbon weave seems to be the top layer (and possibly a but more susceptible to being spiked, getting nicked). From my own experience with Nordic Evolution, the carbon seems to be "deeper" in the pole (first layer??).

[golfdane]

Sure she's 125???

Vaulter in question wants to know what the heck THAT's supposed to mean? ;-)

Oooooops......

I mean, 125 isn't a whole lot, and you do seem to be 5'6"-5'7". I wasn't implying that you were anywhere near the 145 rating of your pole

[Darth Vaulter]

At the risk of piling on, I bought a 13-130 and a 13-135 for my 125 lb (really) vaulter this year. She jumped on the 13-130 at higher heights most of the outdoor season. At the state meet, she was focused and fast and quickly blew through her shorter, non-carbon weave poles and the 13-130 in the warm up. She grabbed the 13-135 and on her first jump on it it snapped in two just below the black rings of the wrapping tape about 40% of the way down from the top (guessing from a picture of the broken pole). This pole had 5 to 8 total jumps on it and went right from its shipping tube to a sleeve in a top-of-the-line Pacer (Rockback) padded pole bag. She didn't hit it with her foot (or anything else) on that jump. In my opinion, this cost her her shot at a state championship (she was the runner-up as a junior). She blew through the 13-130 on all of her attempts with the standards at 31". I/she loved the poles in all other respects, but at $400 a pop, I have to feel confident they are going to be more durable.

[varska]

I recall a concept from my Mechanics of Materials class long ago. It had to do with the speed a force was applied to an elastic material. Think Silly Putty. You can stretch it out to arms length if the force is gradual and evenly applied, but a sudden sharp tug will snap it before it can begin to stretch. It may be called the modulus of elasticity, but I can't really remember. Anyway, is it possible that the carbon weave is constructed in such a way that in factory testing it will handle the required loads, but in the hands of a fast aggressive vaulter the load is applied too suddenly, causing the 'silly putty snap'? That would explain why the poles don't really look like they're overbending when they break.

I dunno, food for thought.

[rainbowgirl28]

I recall a concept from my Mechanics of Materials class long ago. It had to do with the speed a force was applied to an elastic material. Think Silly Putty. You can stretch it out to arms length if the force is gradual and evenly applied, but a sudden sharp tug will snap it before it can begin to stretch. It may be called the modulus of elasticity, but I can't really remember. Anyway, is it possible that the carbon weave is constructed in such a way that in factory testing it will handle the required loads, but in the hands of a fast aggressive vaulter the load is applied too suddenly, causing the 'silly putty snap'? That would explain why the poles don't really look like they're overbending when they break.

I dunno, food for thought.

I guess that is something that Jeff Watry thought of at Gill Athletics, because they developed a dynamic testing machine specifically for testing the new carbons. Check out this video about 1/3 of the way through to see it: https://www.gillathletics.com/weave/

[kcvault]

I jumped on the Carbon weave poles 4 years ago when they were defective and I broke three within a couple jumps. I know they worked out the problems with them but i'm scared to jump on them now. They shave so much material off to make them lighter it has almost no protective layer. Also I bought a 4.90 14.3 and the old carbon pacers I jump on are actually lighter. Also the carbon pacers I use have nicks and scratches all over them and I have not broken any in 5 years. I wish they would not have discontinued making the 2002 carbon pacer model.