6P - 10-19-08 - Great Practice

[joebro391]

1. Now is imprinting good, or is it bad? (PP, shhhhh!)

it's good, provided, you're imprinting the correct things

2. So if I have a lot of power in my legs, and I'm fearless, then I too will be able to do a standing front somi?

give it a shot, we'll find out

3. So if I lift heavy weights to get even MORE power in my legs, then my standing front somi will be even more perfect? (PP, shhhh!)

depends, gymnastics, as well as pole vaulting, doesn't require much static strength. It's all about 'static' strength. as in, me squatting 270, is %220 my body weight.

4. If I cut my somi speed of rotation in half, what would I land on? (PP, shhhhhh!)

if you jumped high enough, you could still land on your feet. but odds are...your a**

Now back to my ORIGINAL question:

5. In your standing back somi, HOW were you able to land on your feet?

...i jumped up, as hard as i could, brought my knees to me chest (brining me over) and extended my legs.

NOW, i'm about 95% sure, that i answered your questions in a manner, other than you wanted. something tells me that you're not looking for a tutorial on how to tumble. i'm gonna say you wanted the answer "repition" or "practice makes perfect" but i landed it on my first shot. ALSO, if you're gonna point out that i'm 'used' to getting things easy, well, i don't apply that to vaulting, considering it's perhaps, one of the hardest sports of all time. i don't expect to get it quickly.

let me know if i'm still way off. -6P

[KirkB]

let me know if i'm still way off. -6P

Yeh, you're way off!

You don't get it yet, but you will.

"Quickly as you can, snatch the pebble from my hand." The young Caine tries and fails. "When you can take the pebble from my hand, it will be time for you to leave. -Master Kan

PP, now that 6P's taken a crack at these questions (and failed miserably ), it's your turn.

Kirk

[powerplant42]

The answers to all of these questions are in the 'it depends' realm, but I have made decisions (on my answers) based on which way I think the response tends to lean.

1. Too vague... I agree with 6P on this one... I think that 'it depends' on what you're trying to imprint, how you're trying to imprint it, and how often you are imprinting it.
2. No. See #5. (Although, I would love to see you attempt any type of flip KB! Please do give it a shot! )
3. No.
4. Your head/stomach.
5. In order of importance: Confidence, practice, and power (strength x speed).

[KirkB]

Both of you have some hunches that aren't totally off base, but they really don't hit the nail squarely on the head either.

Anyone else care to take a crack at this?

I'm hoping that by sometime in the middle of next Spring (perhaps when you guys start peaking for the season), you'll be snatching that pebble from my hand!

I will say, tho, that if you can figure out how to do a standing back somi (as 6P has), then you'll be able to apply the same principles to figuring out how to increase your trail leg swing speed.

But if you can do it, but you don't know HOW you did it, then you won't be able to transfer this knowledge to highbar and rings, will you?

I would love to see you attempt any type of flip KB! Please do give it a shot!

Surely you will accept my word for it that I could do a standing back somi - back in the day!

Let's see your back somi dismounts off the highbar!

5. In order of importance: Confidence, practice, and power (strength x speed).

So PP, you're saying that as long as I have self-confidence that I can do it, and as long as I practice somis, and as long as I have enough power, then I'll be able to do a back somi? Aren't you missing something?

Kirk

[powerplant42]

I hope that this does not have anything to do with the 'metaphysical' thread! That would be sort of mean...

Perhaps I should explain my thoughts more fully... something tells ME that a one word answer doesn't totally cover it. I said 'it depends', but depends on what?

1. I stand by this one... Although, I'm not too sure of your definition of 'imprinting'. You have not yet defined it for us. (I do not TOTALLY stand by what I said anymore after my revelation as I typed number 3.)
2. There is more involved than fearlessness and leg power. There is the element of power in other 'somi muscles', let alone coordination. (And of course, this ties in with everything else! I'm getting it all now as I type this after I typed 3 then retyped 1.)
3. No, it will do just the opposite in the short run, but in the long run... ---- I just had a shift in thinking about #1. (Though, I would still prefer to have a set definition of 'imprinting' as to be sure.)
4. This one still confuses me. I do not think you're exactly looking for what we land on, but I don't know what... it does depend on how high you jump up, but - perhaps I'm reading too far into this one. I still say on your front side (usually).
5. This one clicked as I began writing this post... I will be PMing you in a few minutes KB to make sure I'm on target (and to keep 6P in the dark that he seems to love so much!).

Oh, and about the video 'deal':

My shortest post ever ...

powerplant42 wrote:
As soon as you put your short run post up, I will post my videos. Deal?

Deal!

But I said that I would do my best to get them up this week. I'll bring my camera to school tomorrow, so that not all the most recent stuff is off of a camera phone (I actually 'filmed' some last weekend, and I'll put that up too, but I'll get even more good footage... but I do need to post at least one of the videos from my phone... you'll see why! Let's just say I got 'rejected' by a certain 'girl' and it 'hurt' pretty bad. I even wrote about it in my 'diary'. )

[joebro391]

So PP, you're saying that as long as I have self-confidence that I can do it, and as long as I practice somis, and as long as I have enough power, then I'll be able to do a back somi? Aren't you missing something?
Kirk

THERE IS NO ROCKBACK OR TUCK! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

i couldn't resist hahahahaha

[powerplant42]

(KB, regarding reference in my PM, this is NOT my 'latest' post... at the time I was writing the PM, my post before this one in this thread was my 'latest'.)

You're right 6P, but, assuming you've read my 'paradox' posts, you should also know that there is no such thing as the 'inversion' either.

And Joe, I think I've figured it out. Contemplate deeply about the questions. Read my 'latest' post again (there are various hints in there, pay special attention to the order in which I 'revelated'). #5 could be a toughy though...

This is all assuming that I got it 'right', which I might not have...

Kirk, you are becoming a Western agapit very quickly indeed!

[joebro391]

i keep thinking about this from a coaches point of view and it's totally throwing me off. i mean, i taught a girl how to do a back-tuck, friday night, and it was as simple as "jump as high as you can, keeping your chest upright, bring your knees to your chest, and have your arms, initiate the spin. then, onces you feel yourself (body awareness) turn over, extend your body.

i don't really have to think about it anymore. i just do it. IT'S...IMPRINTED IN MY BRAIN

[KirkB]

I'll mark PP's PM answer to #1 correct, although he went deeper than was necessary. Just the part in brackets was all I needed. His original [one-word] answer to #3 was also correct. PP gets 2/5 = 40%. That's a "D". Ha! ha!

Really, guys, these aren't trick questions. They're very basic. Only a few words per answer will suffice. Less is more. You just need to get it. And get it RIGHT.

As I said, there's something that PP is missing for #5. Actually, its 2 things. They're closely related, yet they're absolutely distinct. Just because you have one doesn't mean that you have the other.

You should realize by now that the first 4 questions just lead up to the 5th question. If you get #5, the first 4 should be easy.

6P, your answers aren't all wrong, they're just incomplete. For #1, you would get a half mark, but I'm only scoring full points, so your answer doesn't cut it. For #2, I would be stupid to "give it a shot" until I had the answers to the 2 missing parts of #5. Your #3 and #4 are way off base. On #5, if I was giving quarter marks, you might get something more than 0, but since I'm only scoring in full marks, you get a goose egg here too. Your most recent guess at #5 is also worth a few fractions of a point, but still no cigar. So your running score is 0/5. That's an "E". Ha! ha!

6P, I'm really glad that you videoed your somi, because if I just saw your rings and highbar tricks, I'd think ... well, you know.

But your somi is GREAT! And if you can do a good somi, then I have high hopes for you to doing good rings/highbar tricks! And if you can do good rings/highbar tricks, then the sky's the limit!

What I'm hoping you'll figure out is HOW you did the somi. Then use that information to do the rings/highbar drills. Then use that information to vault. You see the relationship? When you "get it", you will. But not until.

See the Way of life as a stream. A man floats, and his way is smooth. The same man, turning to fight upstream, exhausts himself. To be One with the Universe, each must find his true path and follow it. -Master Kan

Kirk

[KirkB]

5. In order of importance: Confidence, practice, and power (strength x speed).

Penz Powerhouse was an Amish boy who was raised in a commune where there was no TV, radio, or communication of any kind to the outside world. He wasn't allowed to dance or play music, play sports, or any other form of play. From a very young age, he had to work with his father in the fields, and developed very strong muscles from tossing bales of hay into the barn. He also happened to be very self-confident in his strength and speed. He will tell you that he was the best bale-tosser in the commune, and proud of it. But young Penz had heard one of the elders talk about pole vaulting, so he wanted to try it. He thought he would be a good PVer, with his speed and strength. So in his Sr. year of high school, he ran away from home and was taken in by a family in Maryland, where he showed up at the local HS on the first day of PV practice.

Another boy from the Ukraine by the name of Hex Phlipka came to the same school, and also showed up at the same PV practice. He was a former student of the Donetsk Vaulting School, and had trained under Sergey Bubka.

The HS coach, one Kandew Birdman , had heard that Hex had immigrated to the US and would be attending his school. He was quite excited about that, because Birdman was an over-the-hill PVer that was looking for a PV protegé to lead his team to victory in the state track meet.

He had not met either boy yet, but took one look at the pecs and biceps on Penz and mistakenly assumed that he was Hex. So he asked Penz to demo to the PV team how to do a standing back somi. Penz spoke perfect English, but had never heard of a somi, so he had no idea what Coach Kandew was asking him to do. Not knowing what else to do, he just shrugged his shoulders and gave the coach a blank stare.

Hearing his name being mentioned, Hex came forward. "Hex" he said, pointing to himself. Coach Birdman was happy to have found his protegé, who would now demonstrate to the rest of the team how to do the back flip. But when asked to do it, he was unable to understand what was being asked of him, since he didn't understand a word of English. So he too just shrugged his shoulders and gave the coach a blank stare.

So the questions are ...

(1) If Kandew took the time to coach both Hex and Penz, who would master the trick first?

(2) Who would master it best?

Think about it.

You see, the reason you haven't been able to answer question #5 is because you're blinded by your present situation.

Po: Close your eyes. What do you hear?
Young Caine: I hear the water. I hear the birds.
Po: Do you hear your own heartbeat?
Young Caine: No.
Po: Do you hear the grasshopper which is at your feet?
Caine opens his eyes and looks down at his feet to see a grasshopper there.
Young Caine: Old Man, how is it that you hear these things?
Po: Young Man, how is it that you do not?

Kirk

[powerplant42]

Feel.

Hex (love the names by the way) has vaulted at a reasonably high level for a while. Penz may be strong, but he does not have the 'feel' necessary to land a somi (without some incredible luck).

1. Hex: he already has a feel for these kinds of things.
2. Penz: he is very strong.

Original questions:
2. No. You don't have the feel for it.
4. Your feet.
5. 6P has the strength to do the jump and flip, but he also has the feel.

(And a 40% is an E or F!)

[KirkB]

I won't score your answer to #1 until 6P chimes in. Your reasoning isn't wrong, but it doesn't really hit the mark.

I can see why you guessed Penz for #2. But there's no hints that indicate that Penz is any stronger than Hex - in the sense of any strength that's important for back somis. And I didn't really mean "in the long term". Let's assume that Hex is also a Sr., and set a time limit on this to the end of their Sr. year.

I'm very surprised at your answer for #4. It's dead wrong.

I won't say that your answers to original questions #2 or #5 are totally wrong - you're on the right track. But still no full marks.

Let's give 6P a chance now.

I didn't think it would be this hard. [sigh]

Kirk