Rule Change Proposal - Opinion

[Barto]

But yes Barto, WHO will this affect!?

The first step would be to propose it to the USATF rules commitee.

[Thats.What.She.Said]

ok i have the answer, i asked my friend who does cross country, not pole vault, so that there was no biased opinion, and he said that it is a bad idea.

No. If you want the 'answer', do a survey of this question (written by a neutral non-athlete as to prevent experimenter bias/self-fulfilling prophecy) of at least 10,000 non-vaulters that represent a 90+% accurate cross-section of all pole vaulters based on race, age, ethno-cultural background, and area of inhabitance. 1 person doesn't cut it. Besides, it matters much more what the VAULTERS think, doesn't it? That's like a doctor saying, "OK FDA board dudes, I have the answer, I asked my friend who does physics, not medecine, so that there was no biased opinion, and he said that this medecine is a bad idea."

Sorry twss, I had to call you out on that one... I recently finished my Psych AP statistics unit and just finished doing a study analysis about 5 minutes ago, so that part of your post really jumped out at me.

but anyways, i say no, because it would be like in say a cross country meet saying that the top 5 finishers from each team matter but then everyone else who finished within the same minute tied.

It is not. That would be equivalent to having everyone that jumped worse than 5th tie if they jump within a certain 1 foot range, i.e., 13'-14' tie, 14'-15' tie, etc. This is not so.

But yes Barto, WHO will this affect!?

ok fine within the same 30 seconds, my point is that idk about you people but even if i dont come in a top scoring place, i still like to see how i did in comparison to the competition at my level, like at the state qualifier this spring i tied for 15th, the lowest place (excluding people who no heighted), but i would rather see that than that i tied with like 7 other people (complete guess there) even though theoreticly they actually did better than me. ok that was quite the run-on sentence. and way to make me feel bad about myself... actually its ok, cause i asked my friend how i should start that post, since i was mostly trying to get out of writing my english paper cause i could not focus. umm so i feel like there was more to this that i cant remember.

but for now i would atleast change the wording from top three to all scoring positions, since it can vary from meet to meet.

[powerplant42]

but for now i would atleast change the wording from top three to all scoring positions, since it can vary from meet to meet.

Now THAT might be a possibility, as rainbowgirl has already mentioned.

But there is so much more than what 'place' you came in in determining how you did compared to others at a meet...

[Thats.What.She.Said]

but for now i would atleast change the wording from top three to all scoring positions, since it can vary from meet to meet.

Now THAT might be a possibility, as rainbowgirl has already mentioned.

But there is so much more than what 'place' you came in in determining how you did compared to others at a meet...

yeah true, but its also easier to say place when someone asks how i did, because i know none of my friends really understand any of that "well my place wasnt great but i was hitting my take offs well, so i did well"

[powerplant42]

Which matters more in the end in your situation... how well YOU think you did, or how well OTHERS think you did? If I was more focussed on the latter, I might have have quit pole vault by now. But I do see your point.

[Thats.What.She.Said]

Which matters more in the end in your situation... how well YOU think you did, or how well OTHERS think you did? If I was more focussed on the latter, I might have have quit pole vault by now. But I do see your point.

haha dont worry im more focussed on how i did, its just more of the whole, it gets pretty annoying explaining it to people, since they announce the meet on the announcements, and if i dont come in the top 1 or 2 then i usually dont get announced, so then i get asked. on a side note i just found out that my brother's old pants fit me

[powerplant42]

Dude, lay off the Mountain Dew!

[Thats.What.She.Said]

but mt sew is yummy, and might i say, that is quite sketchy cause i was drinking it when i posted that.

[powerplant42]

I could tell by your post...

Anyway, we're back on topic now. Barto, where/how might this trickle down if it does go into effect?

[Rhino]

Here's my opinion: The purpose for competition is to determine who is best. That is the beauty of track and field as opposed to a sport with subjective scoring or ring around the rosie where everybody gets a ribbon for participation. That said, when the performance is tied, I see no need to break the tie. When I was in high school, football games ended when the time ran out. There was no overtime. I preferred this to the modern tie breaking systems which are different for high school, college, and pro.

In long jump, if the best jump is tied, you don't award a tie until second best and down the line are compared. That is a good thing.

I think there should be a compelling need any time a rule is changed. I see nothing wrong with the current method of determining who places ahead of whom. I might like it better if instead of total misses, the misses were compared at top height, next lower, etc. It isn't enough better to be worth changing the rule though.

I get pretty owly about the injustice of some clown starting at the lowest height, clearing it and every other bar on third attempt, then getting prodigious luck to clear a high bar. If he were not to be punished for those 14 misses at earlier heights, I don't think I could take it!

[birdi_gurlie]

Ha...one of our guys did that at states. He won, I think. Its not that he's bad...au contrare, last year he was 16th in nationals in the 2A college division, if I remember correctly...16'1" as a college freshman...he just had a bad day. But my coach still refers to that whenever one of us does that...or anything similar, like getting it on the 3rd for a few vaults.

[vaultwest]

I have been trying to think of a reason that this would be a good rule change and I just can't come up with anything. I have no strong feelings but I would have to say that for younger athletes learning the value of no misses in a competition is important. Learning that you have a better chance of winning or medaling if you tie heightwise but win on the count back is important and I think the present system helps illustrate that to vaulters as they are developing. I think we are all competitive so we want to place as well as we can besides the obvious goals of jumping PR's. Also in championship meets at all levels where 8 places score points I just don't think this would be a viable rule. Just my two cents worth and I must say I am still very curious why the very astute Barto is proposing this.
Vault On