swing timing

[vault3rb0y]

Oh yea by the way heres my jump to critique. How will making your changes help me?

http://www.treemo.com/users/jpelletier/ ... em/317012/

[LHSVaulterJJR]

my point again was not to pick apart his technique but to point out that the arm should be higher .. and that was to only prove another previous statement of mine. and yes a model is what your striving to be and it applies to all vaulters but depending upon your model the technique varies. my model can be applied to all vaulters and even varied through out there own personal prefferences( OBVIOUSLY) and yes i know the principles of the vault and all the physics along with it. models are just a representation of how you personally choose to tie all that information together into an effective vault. i see no where to me being at fault for pointing out that he had a low left arm which caused his takeoff to be under and his hips to be dragged out. it was merely helping me explain how to fix that problem using my model and representation. because obviously he could continue with the petrov model with great success. but this all derived from him picking apart a common model and representation of proffesional vaulters

[vaultnaked352]

ur Jason Pelletier?? sweet!! Congrats on the win and PR. I've got a couple of question's 4 u, if thts cool.

1. How many poles do u have and what make, length and weight r they?

2. How tall r u and how much do u weigh?

thts about it. lol. Yea man u had 17ft easy on tht jump. Hopefully i'll be there by the end of the season. I've had the height in practice, but i need 2 start working my grip back. I've had 17ft height griping between 14' and 14'6 but then the penetration isn't there. Tht kinda sux but i gotta figure it out. Oh yea, Where were u griping whenu jumped 16' 10? My friend Riley Egan competed there, i qualified 2 go but Prom was on the same say and my date already had everything bought and set up. lol

[sooch90]

sigh, I'm getting tired of arguing about this.

yes i know the principles of the vault and all the physics along with it. models are just a representation of how you personally choose to tie all that information together into an effective vault.

Are you kidding me? You and your 2 years of high school vaulting and you think you know all the principles and physics of the vault? Well clearly you don't, you didn't even know the difference between a free takeoff and a prejump. And you know all the physics of the jump? Maybe you could share with us an indepth analysis that explains all components of the vault?

Honestly, just face it. You're way over your head. Your 2 years of vaulting and maybe a semester of high school physics just simply does not give you the qualifications of a coach or even a person who can go around with any sort of authority of the vault. And being a helpful teammate (to your bud Kirk) is not the same thing as coaching him. So don't go around saying that you've coached this athlete to become a 15 or 16+ vaulter when he probably started vaulting before you, okay?[/quote]

[VaultPurple]

i think sometimes people just get too agressive in here...

i do not agree that a good way to pole vault is locking out the bottom arm, it will not get you very high, and you can not get inverted properly....

but for some very new people it is a way to learn what it feels like to bend a pole... just for the beginning, if they dont have the right pole selections and definetly not if they have a very experienced coach that can teach them otherwise (just making all points clear hear)

but when i started learning how to vault i could never bend the pole, and i never really understood what the coach meant by saying to get my arms up, so i figured out that if i pushed my bottom arm up then the pole would bend easily.

i was able to get on and bend a lot bigger pole with this even though i soon maxed out with this technique because i could not really go upsidedown.

then after i knew what i was doing wrong i was able to switch to the right technique of getting my arms higher and not pushing so that i had a more efficient swing and better penitration.

this is all to say it is easy for me to understand where this guy is coming from by saying that if a person stiffarms a pole they can accualy feel what it is like to bend a pole, and then they can work from there to better their technique once that they have accualy bent a pole.

[Sandi]

i dont think anyone should have the courage to degrade other athletes on this msg board. this is for helpful critique tips, and if you disagree with someone elses form and you cant keep it to yourself then say it but you dont have to say something completely rude about it. I think we just need to realize, like LHSVaulterJJR said, there are many different forms of vault. not going into all the details, im sure you know all about it....but what i do have to say is for the 2 years that Jason has been vaulting, he has gained a LOT of knowledge on the physics of the vault, many different styles, etc. after working with olympic coaches, i think that he is qualified to call himself a coach. He has helped me a ton, too! and in relation to this.... i will call it a heated discussion lol....i agree with him that you DO need to push out that left arm to get the bend easier and therefore be able to get your vert. but I also know that there are many different styles of vaulting....so if you have found one that works for you then show the world that your form is the "best" lol. I still have a ton of work to be done on my vault, but this year im hoping to get 12'...as of now my PR in a meet is 10' 6" but in practice recently i have been way over it. This vid is from a couple months ago, I need to upload a more recent one but i think this might do for now haha

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Vyc472UhgFM

[vaultnaked352]

i think sometimes people just get too agressive in here...

but for some very new people it is a way to learn what it feels like to bend a pole... just for the beginning, if they dont have the right pole selections and definetly not if they have a very experienced coach that can teach them otherwise (just making all points clear hear)

but when i started learning how to vault i could never bend the pole, and i never really understood what the coach meant by saying to get my arms up, so i figured out that if i pushed my bottom arm up then the pole would bend easily.

i was able to get on and bend a lot bigger pole with this even though i soon maxed out with this technique because i could not really go upsidedown.

then after i knew what i was doing wrong i was able to switch to the right technique of getting my arms higher and not pushing so that i had a more efficient swing and better penitration.

this is all to say it is easy for me to understand where this guy is coming from by saying that if a person stiffarms a pole they can accualy feel what it is like to bend a pole, and then they can work from there to better their technique once that they have accualy bent a pole.

This is all LHSVaulterJJR was trying 2 say in the first place. And yes ppl get WAY 2 friggin aggresive in here. But what LHSVaulter was saying in the first place was tht some beginers should be taught this inorder 2 get a feel 4 the bend if they r having trouble executing the proper way to bend a pole. I know from ecperience tht this is true, now i'm saying tht i have many yrs under my belt. All I am saying is tht I know that it does work and definetly helps up until a certain point where the vaulter is ready to better there form.
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Live, Love, Vault

[sooch90]

I'm sorry if I sounded rude.

"i agree with him that you DO need to push out that left arm to get the bend easier and therefore be able to get your vert"

No, sorry but no. The bottom arm does not "push" to get the bend easier. This will only completely stop your swing.

http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/vie ... sc&start=0

[BethelPV]

My personal opinion and i will leave it alone after this is that if you are vaulting correctly, by applying pressure upwards towards the crossbar and jumping up and through your hands as much as possible (what i mean by this is not being so stiff that you just jam the pole into the back of the box... this includes being incredibly stiff with the bottom arm), the pole should bend if you are on the proper grip with the proper pole. Look at how many girls and even some guys bend the pole without any bottom arm at all. It is all caused by the energy you put into the pole through your run and jump as the pole hits the back of the box, not how much you can "make" the pole bend...

There should be no concept of "getting used" to the bend of the pole. Your vault should not change whether you bend the pole or jump with a stiff pole. Thats why we practice both.

[vault3rb0y]

ur Jason Pelletier?? sweet!! Congrats on the win and PR. I've got a couple of question's 4 u, if thts cool.

1. How many poles do u have and what make, length and weight r they?

2. How tall r u and how much do u weigh?

thts about it. lol. Yea man u had 17ft easy on tht jump. Hopefully i'll be there by the end of the season. I've had the height in practice, but i need 2 start working my grip back. I've had 17ft height griping between 14' and 14'6 but then the penetration isn't there. Tht kinda sux but i gotta figure it out. Oh yea, Where were u griping whenu jumped 16' 10? My friend Riley Egan competed there, i qualified 2 go but Prom was on the same say and my date already had everything bought and set up. lol

Haha thanks man, i appreciate it. Riley is a great vaulter, theres no doubt he was the favorite going into the 16'10.25" hieght, he was on fire.

1.) I jump on altius poles, pretty much anything i need, they are great. I opened on a 14'9" 17.3cm flex (180) at 15'2" and jumped 16'10.25" on a 14'9" 15.5cm (190). I was gripping at 14'6" for all of that. The standards never came closer than 70 until we went to attempts at 17'. Then i went to a 15'3" 15.5cm holding around 14'10" with standards on 55 or 60 for my last 2 attempts at 17'. I didnt have any gas left in the tank at that point though.

2.) Im 5'9.5" and i weigh about 160-165. Not real tall, i wouldnt say super athletic. Just had good things happen at the right time .

[VaultPurple]

i agree with him that you DO need to push out that left arm to get the bend easier and therefore be able to get your vert

it does make the pole bend alot easier, but no it does not let you go inverted properly because your arm gets in the way and you are behind the pole instead of infront of it so you can not go upside down...

There should be no concept of "getting used" to the bend of the pole. Your vault should not change whether you bend the pole or jump with a stiff pole. Thats why we practice both.

dont know what you really mean by this... straight poleing and pole bending feel way diffrent, yes they share the same concepts for the most part, but there is a diffrent feel you realize the first time you ever bend a pole... like wow that felt really soft... have you ever noticed how the first time a vaulter bends a pole as in putting the slightest cressent in it they are like "wow i bent the crap out of that", and your thinking, 'when?'
That first time is a big feeling and for some it takes getting used to because they dont know how to ride the pole until it fully unbends right away..

i know we had a guy this year that could straight pole 10' but the second he bent the pole he would let go or do something crazy. but as he kept bending he finnaly caught on and got the hang of catching the bend and holding on until it completly unbends

maybe you got to still be a relatively newbie to understand... and still rember bending the pole for the first time

[/quote]

[vaultnaked352]

http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/vie ... sc&start=0

Alright Sooch even u didn't know about the bottom arm until u read that forum. Plus, look at the comment below yours from Glory

"thats impressive..i struggled with the same thing..my bottom hand about nailed me in the face every plant and i was clearing 15...i recently moved my hands closer together allowing me be leaning forward more on takoff which locked out my bottom arm..i have since cleared 16'8 in practice..yet to do it in a meet though..kinda sucks"


still "lock" is not a good word. A better word 2 describe what we are talking about is position. High hand (right and left) position to drive chest which increases C position and swing. And locking does not completly prohibit you from swinging. I know from personal experience. Have you even tried getting your left arm high Sooch???