swing timing

LHSVaulterJJR · Unread postby **LHSVaulterJJR** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:35 pm

i completly understand the status of coach tim mcmicheal but maybe i didnt explain my point clearly. you can look this up on youtube if you wish but multiple proffesional and elite pole vaulters lock out there left arm during the plant. now this is not pushing forwards, the left arm is pushing up along with the right and when you get that left arm pushed straight up you get a higher more efficient bend .. then you may allow your chin to come forward and chest drive forwards to stay balanced over the hips. when proffesionals keep there left arm bent during the plant its to allow there chest to drive forwards, and right after there drive swing theyll lock out or STRAIGHTEN OUT both hands in there vault in order to hang from them during the swing up phase.. now planting with both arms straight and high just creates a higher bend and an easier transition into the swing up ... and yes obviously u can get very far with keeping that arm bent but there is more than one style of vaulting

LHSVaulterJJR · Unread postby **LHSVaulterJJR** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:37 pm

this is of tim mcmichael himself using the technique i decribed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qPHdlD8G ... re=related

AR01 · Unread postby **AR01** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:43 pm

I don't think they lock out their arms. If they did it would cause multiple post-plant problems. I think theres a difference between keeping the arms straight while maintaining pressure and "locking out" the arms.

sooch90 · Unread postby **sooch90** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:16 pm

and here's tim mcmichael himself explaining HIS technique of the plant

http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11053

"I need to insert a note here about the arms. As in all good plants, the hands must be as high as possible at the instant of takeoff, and the step must be beneath or slightly outside the top hand. The arms, however, must not be pushing up on the pole or blocking out, even though, on a world class drive vault, they appear to be doing just that. Blocking will make it impossible to achieve the longest possible swing. The left elbow must be facing outward and not locked, and the shoulders must allow the arms to come back as far as possible. Even though the left arm appears to be pushing, it only puts pressure on the pole for the merest fraction of a second as it comes up and behind the shoulders. After this, it is actually pulling on the pole. The reason the left arm is straighter in the drive vault than in any other model is because this position allows the vaulter pull harder on the pole during the swing. "

and here's some more commentary on the bottom arm technique
http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13486

and here's a picture of bubka at takeoff

seeing a pattern?

essxpv91 · Unread postby **essxpv91** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:19 pm

i would think that because elite vaulters are on such a long pole, keeping their bottom arm straight wouldnt cause as many problems as keeping your bottom arm straight on maybe a 11 foot or any other short pole because it wouldnt allow the pole to fully bend. If you keep your bottom arm straight on a smaller pole you wont be able to get your plant above your head because your arm will be out in front of you but on a longer pole you need the upwards pressure to get your plant above your head. i dont know if thats right at all and i am def no expert haha but thats what it seems like to me

LHSVaulterJJR · Unread postby **LHSVaulterJJR** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:29 pm

AGAIN LIKE I SAID bubka has a completley different vault style and like i said yes i mispoke and used the word LOCKED i meant to say keep the arm straight either way it was for a beginning progression just for the vaulter to get the feel for it and yes i am correct in the fact of stating both arms should be straight and pushing the pole to verticle

powerplant42 · Unread postby **powerplant42** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:51 pm

What do you mean to say, that beginners should lock out their bottom arm to get a 'feel' for bending a pole?.....I'd laugh, but that's just not funny... :mad:

LHSVaulterJJR · Unread postby **LHSVaulterJJR** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:55 pm

i mean to say that if a begginer whos been stiff poling for a while continues to let there left arm come in to there chest like in the video of tims vaulter going over 12 ft then that beggining vaulter is not going to start to bend the pole properly if at all .. im saying the they should get there arms as high as possible in order to bend the pole POSSIBLY over emphasizing that left arm so that it bends easier and they can get used to it

LHSVaulterJJR · Unread postby **LHSVaulterJJR** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:58 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awxf8EQ3 ... re=related

thats another one of tims vaults notice keeps both arms straight and high and keeps them completley straight through his entire vault until the pull turn

sooch90 · Unread postby **sooch90** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:59 pm

Well, mis-speaking can cause a lot of confusion, especially for beginner vaulters and especially the word "LOCKED".

And no, the bottom arm is not suppose to be straight, even just to get beginners to "get the feel for it". That won't help them at all. It will teach them to block out and completely stop them from swinging.

And if this "pushing up with the bottom arm" is a "vaulting style" then it is by no means "fact" as you stated. Both Tim McMichael with his driving technique and Petrov with the Petrov model (producing the indoor and outdoor world record jumps) agree that you should NOT push the pole up with your bottom arm. Again you might just be "mis-speaking" by calling it a fact, but it still causes a lot of confusion and problems. Which is why I emphasized that you should know your stuff before you try to give out advice, especially one that could very well be detrimental to a vaulter's progress. Even if you do know your stuff, unless you're a coach or an experienced athlete, you should still be very careful about giving technical advice to people.

I'd say most knowledgable coaches would recommend beginners to get a feel for a free takeoff or at least an outside take-off. Not jamming the bottom arm in to the pole.

sooch90 · Unread postby **sooch90** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:00 pm

I just explained or perhaps more accurately quoted Tim McMichael explaining his own vault...

but I guess you would know more about his technique than Tim himself?

vaultnaked352 · Unread postby **vaultnaked352** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 9:13 pm

First of all Jason you spell ed vertical wrong. pretty sure. But both of you make excellent points. Jason I believe u r correct in tht a vaulter should be pushing both arms inorder to push the pole to vert and Sooch is correct by pointing out tht some elite vaulter tend to let the left arm
(in the case of a righty) come in; but they have it high and over there head in order to drive their chest forward. Also we have to agree tht Sergey Bubka was the acception and not the rule. How many people can take-off 4 to 5 inchs off the ground before their pole bends and still have enough speed and momentum to carry into their vault? Not many, even Bubka himself admitted to only achieving a free take-off a hand full of times in his entire career. But getting back to the discussion, I believe that a high plant, both right and left arm, sets up the best positon for take-off. Also Essex had a point in saying tht these pro's are griping between 16 and 17ft. When they take-off their left arm (righty) has to come in inorder to allow them to penetrate/swing. BUT!!! you can look at any one of Bubka's, Stevenson, Mack's, Gibilisco, or Brad Walker's jumps and see tht as soon as they have planted and have begun their swing (UP!!) they push their left arm completly out. This is what i believe LHSVaulterJJR (Jason) was trying to point out. But by realizing tht that is what the pro's do we have to understand tht beginners are not at tht level. The pole vault should be taught in stages/levels. You know what I mean? For example, you don't teach a beginner to free-takeoff simply because they don't have the skill to perform tht at tht time. Also we have to consider tht the vaulter we are talking about is a female. Form between male and female jumpers are mostly the same but there are differences also. One of the reasons being the pole length difference, this tremendiously effects the form of a vaulter. All these things have to be taken in consideration before we can correct/insult a fellow vaulter tht is trying to help another. Lastly, i want to point out tht LHSVaulterJJR is correct in tht there are diffrent styles in the pole vault. A great comparison would be Tim Mack and toby Stevenson, or even Bubka and stevenson. Toby is the type of jumper who drive both arms up on the take-off (LHSVaulterJJR) also Toby is griping extremely close to 17ft. Bubka, i believe, griped 16' 8 when he cleared 20+ the many times he had done it. So as we can see there are different styles and it all depends on which one workd for you.

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