perfect polevaulter

[njvaulter]

If you were able to combine different parts of different vaulters together who would you pick to make the perfect vaulter. Whoud would you choose for the run, plant, takeoff, etc.

[KYLE ELLIS]

I would take Viktor Chistiakovs body. I would use Bubkas run, Duplantis's takeoff, Mcmicheals plant and swing, and Joe Dials top half

[swtvault]

I would put Mike Tully in Jeremy Scotts 6'9 frame with Dup or Huffmans speed. Imagine that? Best technician ever (in my opinion) with the tallest vaulter and the fastest (actually second, but I cant remeber who the fastest was.....and it wasnt Bubka.) This guy would probably require a 5.50 pole (holding 5.45) generating 10m/s, totally efficient.....hmmm. I would say a 6.30+ jumper. Anyone care to divulge in on the math here?

Lets say this

Hes 6'9
lets say 10.1m/s
90% take off efficiency

Heres my question for any math wiz out there. Is a 5.45 (17'11) grip possible with these calculations? I would be interested to learn how to predict jump height using speed and height as variables (ceteris plaribus.)

Also, with this grip height, and efficiency of "the ideal vaulter" I would expect they could clear REAL high....at least 6.30. Well ya know, In all actuality, if you could take Scott Huffmans 5.97 jump and put it into the vaulter I have fabricated.....WOW. Huf made 5.97 holding 4.85. Thats a 1.12 push! As far as I know noone has cleared higher over their grip than this.

OK, So the stud holds 5.45 and pushes 1.12. Thats 6.57. I would bet 95% of the people on this board cant even long jump that far. So whats my point? All you coaches find a really tall kid, get him REAL fast and see what happens. Seriously though, I would love to see someone do the math on this. C'mon.....give it a go! I would but I am math illiterate and numbers make me naucious.

SWTvault

[Kirk]

Don't assume that your dream 6-9 vaulter would have the same gymnastic skill as a 5-6 vaulter. There's a reason that top gymnasts are short, other than the fact that they'd scrape the floor doing giants. Two reasons: They have superior strength-to-weight ratios, and they have better leverage in manipulating their shorter limbs. (These 2 reasons are related, but distinct.)

Come to think of it, top sprinters aren't 6-9 either, so there's probably an ideal speed-to-height ratio too. If all top male sprinters were analyzed, my off-hand guess is that their average ht would probably be around 6-1 or so. (Does anyone know?)

I think an interesting analysis would be to take the wt and ht of each vaulter, and compute his "wt/ht" ratio. Then also include speed and grip into the formula somehow (I leave this as an excercise for all you mathematicians and statisticians.) Then take the best clearances of the best male vaulters (or just take all 19+ vaulters, to eliminate the "clearance" factor), and work out where the "equilibrium" or "average" is. This could be plotted on a 3-dimensional graph, with wt/ht ratio in one direction, speed in another, and grip in the 3rd (or some variation of these). Wouldn't the optimum balance between height, weight, grip, and speed show up on that graph at the 3-D "mid-point"?

Bubka is likely close to that mid-point, but what are your DREAM VAULTER'S ideal metrics? Aren't they likely to be near the mid-point, rather than at the extremes?

I wondered how Duplantis could clear 19' when he was only 5-6 and 125 lbs. He was obviously a speed demon, but I really think that his wt/ht ratio must have given him an excellent strength-to-weight ratio once he left the ground, so he could swing, rockback, and extend better/faster than a 6-9 vaulter.

Related question: Who has the highest handstand, at any clearance ht? (handstand = clearance ht minus grip height + 8 inches in box). And who has the WORST handstand over, say 19'? And is there a correlation between wt/ht ratios and handstand? I'm guessing that the short speedsters (high wt/ht ratios) have better handstands.

Kirk Bryde

[swtvault]

Don't assume that your dream 6-9 vaulter would have the same gymnastic skill as a 5-6 vaulter. There's a reason that top gymnasts are short, other than the fact that they'd scrape the floor doing giants. Two reasons: They have superior strength-to-weight ratios, and they have better leverage in manipulating their shorter limbs. (These 2 reasons are related, but distinct.)

There is also a reason the average height of all the guys over 6 meters is 6'3. Being short in NO way helps you be a successful polevaulter. In fact it is a huge disadvantage.

Come to think of it, top sprinters aren't 6-9 either, so there's probably an ideal speed-to-height ratio too. If all top male sprinters were analyzed, my off-hand guess is that their average ht would probably be around 6-1 or so. (Does anyone know?)

Because everyone over 6'9 plays basketball

Related question: Who has the highest handstand, at any clearance ht?

Did you read my last post? I think you did not and that is why you are out in left field so much on this one.[/quote]

[Bruce Caldwell]

Veteran Vaulter and Former World record holder Steve Smith jumped 18'2" holding 15'2" in a Montreal indoor meet
3'10"plus 8" in the box a total of 4'6"

correction yes and thank you for calling it to my attention swtvault

He held 15'2" for his 18'2" jump making it 3'8"
When I was a rep for Skypole in 1973 we had posters made of his attempt at 18'9" after his 18'2" jump in Montreal and he had moved his hand to 15'4" and almost made it. The picture showed him all the way over the bar but it was a miss!
The caption read "18'9" attempt on a Skypole with a 15'4" handgrip" I stand corrected. It was an attempt with a 4'1" push.

[swtvault]

Bruce,

Did you have a typo on Steve Smiths grip, because 15'2 and 18'2 is 3 feet....plus 8=3'8. In metric, that would be 4.63 and 5.54=.91 meter push. To my limited knowledge, Huff is the king with his 1.12 push (or 4'5.) PVpower member titojumps (tye harvey) held 4.95 and made 5.93, which is also very impressive. I am sure there has been a guy who jumped 17 or so holding rediculously low, but I havent really heard about it. FYI: For a general guideline on grip height to push ratios check out Dave Johnstons "list." It is amazing how accurate it is. Of course there are always exceptions (case in point) but typically most polevaulters are in the ball-park on the "list". Anyway, it is on Bubbapv.com.

[Bruce Caldwell]

http://www.bubbapv.com/Pages/jumpefficiency.htm

[smokinvaulter1]

Quote Joe Dial,
One day in practice Joe started on a 13' and jump 15', then 14' jumped 16'6" and then move to a 15' where he jumped over 5.60. There was quite a few vaulters sitting around at regionals when he was telling us this. He said his first ever 18' jump was on a 15'6". That guys had a ridiculous blow off the top. Huffman comes out and jumps with us here and there, last year he picked up a 15' 190 and smoked 5.20 on his first run down the runway. Both of those guys are short and come smokin off the top of the pole.

[KYLE ELLIS]

I always heard Joe Dial had the best pushoff officially but I dont know if anyone really knows? All I know is that Bubka jumped 20 ft alot and no one else has so what does it matter?

[advath]

Height / Weight Ratios and top marks:
http://digilander.libero.it/atletica2/S ... 987/PV.htm

You don't have to be short to be a good gymnast...You should have seen Mike Tully on a horizontal bar. He was training with us every Wednesday night in the Gymnastics room at CSUN when he PRed and vaulted 19' 2" (5.84m) at age 32 with only one good leg. Mike is just shy of 6'3" tall and over 200 lbs. Mike did many of the drills that I see young much shorter vaulters attempt one handed. He always said, "It's not strength...It's just a timing thing".

[PVJunkie]

I always heard Joe Dial had the best pushoff officially but I dont know if anyone really knows? All I know is that Bubka jumped 20 ft alot and no one else has so what does it matter?

It matters beacuse as you learn to vault, you learn to do it the best way possible. Which means you learn the most efficent tech. Bubka was not the perfect technicican.........he has the highest vault but was he the best vaulter........................thats where this discussion comes in. the higher you jump above your grip ht the better you must be doing things SSSSOOOOO...............chech out your grp ht vs bar cleared then watch Joe, Dup, Scott etc etc...............you might just learn somthing that Bubka could never teach you.