What are your personal records?:Weight lifting

[altius]

"It is possible for a weak athlete to have a solid technical foundation,"

Up to a point -see Jamie Scroop on the BTB dvd - but "what is technically desirable must be physically possibly". However having observed perhaps 1000s of US vaulters at all levels of performance over the past fifteen years there is no doubt in my mind that the major elements holding the vast majority back are technical weaknesses - not their physical stats.

Remember that I have worked with many athletes from beginner to 5. 50. Very few had the time to complete a full training program and even fewer included weight training. Take a look at the twins on the dvd -especially Tom - it is his technique that gets him over 5.00m, not his power.

Tiny faults in the movement pattern and timing of the plant element alone will lose you enormous amounts of power at take off -yet this movement is easy to master with repetitive drills - drills of the kind you see Izzy doing on the dvd.

[VaultMarq26]

Technique work will help improve height more than soley weight work.

Generally true, but it depends a lot on what the weak links are for the individual. It is possible for a weak athlete to have a solid technical foundation, but be so weak that it's the biggest factor holding them back.

I agree with that, but I assumed since we were talking about high level strength and conditioning, this conversation would most apply to college athletes....not alot of high schoolers are maxing in hang cleans, at least in my experience here in the mid-west

[aseinc]

There is a difference between powerful and being strong. power can come from being quick. I am a 56 year old master and a High School coach. I work with some very good kids, I am Stronger then most of the young men and stronger and faster then all of the young women, and yet some of them can out vault me. The quickness of their muscle have a great deal to do with the ability to get into go form quicker. but I have lost quickness over time, if you only work on being strong and do not develop the fast twitch muscle to generate explosive power and quickness that will be a mistake.

[VaultMarq26]

There is a difference between powerful and being strong. power can come from being quick. I am a 56 year old master and a High School coach. I work with some very good kids, I am Stronger then most of the young men and stronger and faster then all of the young women, and yet some of them can out vault me. The quickness of their muscle have a great deal to do with the ability to get into go form quicker. but I have lost quickness over time, if you only work on being strong and do not develop the fast twitch muscle to generate explosive power and quickness that will be a mistake.

Great point!!!

[aseinc]

Building muscle to help your grip,swing, and your shoulder and arms to control the pole are good, it will also help to prevent injury's. When weight training for pole vaulting, one should keep in mind that if you pack on weight during your lifting it can and will effect your approach speed. The wrong type of muscle mass will slow you down if you don't think so just through on a weight vest and try to run, see if that help your speed. If the weight you are caring is not helping you with your run speed, or you start to bulk up and lost flexibility your weight training is counter productive to vaulting

[EIUvltr]

Age 25 5'10" ~180lbs

Olympic Clean: 260
Snatch: 185
Squat: 405
Bench Press: 335
Overhead Press: 175
Power Press: 285
Deadlift: 405
Pull-up: Bodyweight +135

[altius]

Age 25 5'10" ~180lbs

Olympic Clean: 260
Snatch: 185
Squat: 405
Bench Press: 335
Overhead Press: 175
Power Press: 285
Deadlift: 405
Pull-up: Bodyweight +135

PR in the pole vault????

[Lax PV]

Some of the PRs that I had from tests that we did frequently...

Power Clean: 110kg
Push Jerk: 112.5kg
Back Squat: 315
Bench Press: 235
Pull Ups: 18
15m Fly: 1.59sec
Standing Broad Jump: 2.85m
3 Hop: 8.41m
Overhead Shot Put: 13.2m
Pole Vault: 15' 7"

[EIUvltr]

Age 25 5'10" ~180lbs

Olympic Clean: 260
Snatch: 185
Squat: 405
Bench Press: 335
Overhead Press: 175
Power Press: 285
Deadlift: 405
Pull-up: Bodyweight +135

PR in the pole vault????

Only 16'1" (4.90m) but I think I could've gone up to a foot higher if I didn't get hurt my senior year of college. A lot of these lifting PRs have come after I stopped vaulting though. Plus I was a garbage pole vaulter.

[altius]

The point I am trying to make is that I suspect that you will find very little correlation between weight training performances and pole vaulting results. If that is the case why waste time on that aspect of training and instead concentrate on things that will make a difference -such as basic drills and say long jumping! Of course there is a minimal level of strength required -below which performance will be held back= but I have seen that only with some adolescent girls. Perhaps the problem is that pumping up your weight prs is seen as macho while repetitive plant drills are not!

[EIUvltr]

I disagree. The problem is that people apply resistance training incorrectly and at the wrong times. You should not be your strongest (in terms of static strength) at the time of your most important meets, however that is what many people try to do because they attempt to train multiple biomotor abilities concurrently. The most intense lifting should be done months prior to conference and national meets. After that it should be maintenance and training to increase power as well as rate of force development, with pole vaulting and drills making up the majority of the workload late in the season. Slow quasi-isometric lifting late in the season can seriously hinder speed and power development, and should be avoided. Pole vaulters are not powerlifters.

I do agree with you that the majority of young vaulters would be better if they spent the majority of their time on the track, on a high bar, and/or on the runway with no weightroom time at all, rather than whatever they are doing right now. However I believe that is a testament to the improper application of resistance training and plyometrics, rather than it being a hindrance to the development of a pole vaulter.

[altius]

Coaching is all about establishing priorities -weight training is given too much emphasis. Take a look at what Bubka says about it.