Most Rapid PR Improvement?

[KirkB]

If you're following PowerPlant's blog, he aspires to improve his SB in the next couple of months by FIVE FEET! Altho this might have been done by A FEW vaulters in the past 100 years, it's very, very rare.

Something like how JoeBro is looking at how high vaulters have been able to jump on a 14-foot pole ... and then comparing that "field data" ... HARD FACTS ... with his own personal data ... I think that PP might get a dose of much-needed reality by looking at other vaulters' ... the "creme de la creme" ... success at meet-to-meet; month-to-month; season-to-season and/or year-to-year improvements.

So my questions are:

1. What was your (or someone you know of) biggest official improvement from year-to-year?

2. What was your (or someone you know of) biggest official improvement from month-to-month?

3. What was your (or someone you know of) biggest official improvement from indoors to outdoors in the same year ... or from outdoors to indoors in the following year? Exclude indoor marks that were during the usual outdoor season.

4. What was your (or someone you know of) biggest official improvement from one meet to another?

If you can, explain the reason for the "breakthru" performances.

I put this in the Intermediate Technique forum, as I think most big improvements occur a couple years after you start vaulting (unless you started "late"). However, if a beginner or an elite had a breakthru year, season, month, or meet, then that would be interesting to hear about too.

Kirk

[KirkB]

To start it off, here's mine ...

1. Biggest year-to-year improvement: 4.57 to 5.28 = 0.61m (15-6 to 17-4 = 22")
2. Biggest season-to-season improvement: 4.98 to 5.28 = 0.30m (16-4 to 17-4 = 12")
3. Biggest month-to-month improvement: 5.00 to 5.28 = 0.28m (16-5 to 17-4 = 11")
4. Biggest meet-to-meet improvement: 5.03 to 5.28 = 0.25m (16-6 to 17-4 = 10")

In HS, I improved by about 18" per year ... fairly steadily. My breakthru year was in 1971 ... my junior year at UW ... and I attribute these big improvements to having spent my freshman and sophomore years training year-round ... with major speed, strength and technique improvements occurring in both these years ... but in both these years my outdoor season ended abruptly with torn ligaments in my ankles (fell into the box). Had I been healthy, I think I might have vaulted 16-something outdoors in my sophomore year ... instead of the next indoor season.

Not in my wildest dreams do I think that I could have improved from my HS PR of 14-3 to 16-0+ in my freshman season ... even if I was perfectly healthy for the entire year!

Kirk

[VaultPurple]

1. What was your (or someone you know of) biggest official improvement from year-to-year?

2. What was your (or someone you know of) biggest official improvement from month-to-month?

3. What was your (or someone you know of) biggest official improvement from indoors to outdoors in the same year ... or from outdoors to indoors in the following year? Exclude indoor marks that were during the usual outdoor season.

4. What was your (or someone you know of) biggest official improvement from one meet to another?

1) 4 Feet 6 Inches (8'6 to 13')

2) Probably 3 Feet 6 Inches in first month of Junior year. I was pretty consistent at 12'6 after first few meets

3) No indoor prior to the season, and sat out most of next indoor with Mono...

4) First meet of Junior year I went 10'6 which was 2 foot improvement, Then 11'6 the meet after that.... So it took me 2 weeks to go from 8'6 to 10'6, then one more week for 11'6, then I went up 6'' a week until I jumped 12'6, then got stuck there till last meet of year where I jumped 13'.


But I started at a point with little to no coaching and not having the right poles, so not like PP's situation.

But Identical to PP's situation is Jack Whitt who went from 11'6 to 16'6 in less than a year. Think it was only to 15' in the same season though... but don't quote me on that.

Anything is possible if you are athletic, stay healthy, and have the right poles... for some people things just click.

Right now I think I could go from 13'6 to 16' this year if I could just stay healthy. I have a good month where i start jumping 15' in practice, then I pull a muscle or something... It is just a continuous cycle.

[KirkB]

... Identical to PP's situation is Jack Whitt who went from 11'6 to 16'6 in less than a year.

The 11-6 is identical to them both. The 16-6 is not. Jack's 16'+ is a PROVEN FACT ... PP's 16' is not.

Kev, do you have the factual stats on Jack re the 4 questions? Whatever they are, they're VERY impressive!

Kirk

[VaultPurple]

... Identical to PP's situation is Jack Whitt who went from 11'6 to 16'6 in less than a year.

The 11-6 is identical to them both. The 16-6 is not. Jack's 16'+ is a PROVEN FACT ... PP's 16' is not.

Kev, do you have the factual stats on Jack re the 4 questions? Whatever they are, they're VERY impressive!

Kirk

KB I don't quite get what you are getting at saying Jack's 16+ is a proven fact. But PP's 16' is not.

Yes Jack's is proven, because it has already happened. PP's has not happened yet. But I really don't feel there should be a thread to convince him he is aiming too high. Yes we know his past and how he is injury prone, but sometimes it just takes everything all coming together at once for stuff to happen. (But I would still recommend that no one try to PR by more than 6'' in one jump)

-Shoot for the moon. Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars....

[KirkB]

VP, I'm replying to most of your last post on PP's blog thread ... where it belongs. I'd like to keep this thread about "success stories" (Yours is a good one! )

But here's a couple points pertinent to this thread ...

Even the number of poles you need to go thru to increase your PR by 5 feet must be phenomenal. The logistics and cost of having the right pole at the right time thru a 12-month 5-foot progression is mind-boggling. I would be interested to hear how many Jack went thru.

Also VP, don't forget that Jack progressed more-or-less steadily thru 12 months (Kev to clarify?) ... whereas PP has not hit ANY new PRs for the last 10 months or so (PP to clarify?) ... and now he's trying to cram his ENTIRE 5-foot improvement into the next two months! "Easier said than done."

Kirk

[VTechVaulter]

i dont have any really impressive numbers for this, but the 3 biggest ones that come to mind.

Bobby most sr year in high school, 2001, 4.45m (14'6), as a junior to 5.40 (17'8) as a senior

Mark Hollis first year out of college, 2008, 530 to 5.75, now granted this isn't as large, but the level of difficulty in improvement is totally spectacular.

And along the same lines

Toby stevenson, 5.75 to 6.00m in 2004. or even on that same day 5.81 to 6.00m.

[golfdane]

The logistics and cost of having the right pole at the right time thru a 12-month 5-foot progression is mind-boggling.
Kirk

Not saying it can't be done, but it sure will be expensive if the poles are to be aquired along the road. I've bought 11 poles in 2009 for my son, but was lucky to buy them used.
Sure, some of these investments were necessary because of his physical stature improving (unavoidable at 16 years), and some are duplicates to be able to train at two facilities.
Were at a competition yesterday in Gothenburg, where he ran out of poles (biggest one we have is a Pacer MS Stic Carbon 440, 19.5). Fortunately, were we able to borrow a Pacer CarbonWeave 440, 18.3 flex from the organizing club , that he used to improve his indoor PR to 4.40m (and he had possibly cleared 4.48m, if a bigger pole had been available).

[VaultPurple]

one of the most consistent improvements would have to be from Renaud Lavilleie

http://www.renaud-lavillenie.com/ext/ht ... 65999.html

Jumping only 15' at age 18 then jumping 6.01 (19'8ish) by age 23. Hardest of those would probably be from 5.65 to 6.01 in one year!


As far as pole progression goes with improvement. My team mate went from 10' to 14'6 from outdoor to indoor and he went from using a 13 155 to jump 10' to a 15' 170 for 14'6 (his technique was really bad, but he was 6'3)

I went from straight poling with a 13 145 to jump 8'6 to jumping 13' with a 13' 160. (Junior year started vaulting with bending pole on a 11'6 135).. coach had hundreds of poles

[powerplant42]

Kirk: I jumped 11'6" on 12-8-08 and have been semi-injured ever since.

[KirkB]

one of the most consistent improvements would have to be from Renaud Lavilleie

Jumping only 15' at age 18 then jumping 6.01 (19'8ish) by age 23. Hardest of those would probably be from 5.65 to 6.01 in one year!

Lavillenie has only had one setback season (2008 outdoor) in the past 7 years ... and NO year-to-year setbacks!

Here's a direct translation of his home page re his progression. I added the (Improvement) columns.

The evolution of my record
Pole
Indoor / Outdoor (Indoor-Outdoor Improvement) (Year-to-Year Outdoor Improvement)

2002 (16): 2m80i - 3m40 (0m60 - 24")

2003 (17): 3m80i - 4m30 (0m50 - 20") (0m90 35")

2004 (18): 4m20i - 4m60 (0m40 - 16") (0m30 12")

2005 (19): 4m60i - 4m70 (0m10 - 4") (0m10 4")

2006 (20): 5m05i - 5m22 (0m17 - 7") (0m52 20")

2007 (21): 5m35i - 5m45 (0m10 - 4") (0m23 9")

2008 (22): 5m70i - 5m65 (-0m05 -2") (0m20 8")

2009 (23): 5m81i - 6m01 (0m20 - 8") (0m36 14")

2010 (24):


Records on:

2 strides: 3m60 (11/2009)

4 strides: 4m30 (11/2009)

6 strides: 4m80 (11/2009)

8 strides: 5m20 (11/2009)

10 strides: 5m40 (11/2009)

12 strides:

14 strides: 5m70 (04/2009)

16 strides:

18 strides: 5m81 (12/2008)

20 strides: 6m01 (06/2009)


Record in LEFT-HANDED PERSON:

4m70 on 12 strides with 4m60 / 77kg

VP, I agree with you that his is about as steady of a progression as you can get ... with some good progression in his past few "elite" years ... when it gets tougher and tougher to increase your PR.

Kirk

[bel142]

Hartwig jumped 14' 6" in high school.
My first break through at the collegiate stage vaulting... I did not PR my first year in school... my sophomore year I walked into searay w/ a PR of 14' 3"... I cleared 15' 7" that day.

Honestly what PP is talking about is not that unusual... As many high school vaulters make the move onto the collegiate scene there is usually a disconnect between reality and what is actually going to happen. From my own experience when I was in high school, I told college coaches I wanted to jump 15' before I graduated. Luckily none of those coaches said "thats great kid but you're on crack".

As we recruit guys out of high school there is always that disconnect when a recruit is talking to a coach or a team mate. It may be trying to make him/her self more marketable or desirable but it happens all the time. Many parents think there child is the greatest thing since sliced bread and generally agree with their child (meanwhile my parents still do it... they are a bit more realistic now tho).

But seeing girl vaulters out of High school saying they want to jump 13-->14 by next month, when she cleared an 11' 9" PR last week is pretty common. The same is true with guys, when the 15'er comes in says he had a great attempt at the 5m bunji in practice off of 4L, so he thinks he can do it from 5 for real. The punch line is... It happens all the time...