worst. pole. break. ever.

[ashcraftpv]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrAr5ebtZLI

[KirkB]

This pole break ... and subsequent "accident" was EASILY preventable.

We can't read the minds of the vaulter or the coach to determine what went wrong, but a few things are quite obvious. The biggest question is "What happened on the attempt just before this one?"

My best guess is that this was not his first attempt of the day. On his previous attempt, he probably held MUCH LOWER. I won't conjecture on whether or not the coach tapped him on the previous attempt, but it's probably safe to guess that the vaulter didn't have a successful attempt ... or a nearly successful attempt ... with a SLIGHTLY lighter pole or a SLIGHTLY lower grip ... so he shouldn't have moved up to such a heavy pole with such a high grip. He just wasn't running/jumping fast enough on takeoff for his grip.

How do I know this? Well ... if you watch his total lack of rotating the pole to vertical ... it's safe to assume ... provided that his runway speed and takeoff speed was similar on his previous attempt ... that he MUST have been on a much lighter pole OR a much lower grip. He was STALLED! He was so far away from rotating to vertical when the pole snapped that it's ridiculous! What a foolish way to break a perfectly good pole!

And the blocking out with the bottom arm ... that was foolish too! This vid is proof why blocking doesn't work! IT KILLS YOUR SWING!

And the TAPPING by the coach ... well, that's also ridiculous! I can just imagine the coach coaxing him down the runway, saying "Don't worry ... you won't stall out ... I'll tap you ... just block out your bottom arm, and the pole will bend properly ...".

Lessons learned ...
1. If you're a coach, DON'T tap, and if you're a vaulter, DON'T let your coach tap you! You need to learn to "walk" on your own two feet!
2. When getting onto a stiffer pole, don't bump up to too high of a pole all at once.
3. When getting onto a stiffer pole, don't increase your grip. Keep it exactly the same as on the softer pole.
4. Don't block out with your bottom arm!

Here's another possibility ... that's also extremely foolish ...

Some vaulters (or their coaches) think that to bend a stiffer pole, you have to increase your grip. The rationale for this seems to be based on a poor understanding of physics. They think that bending the pole is all about leverage, so if the pole is stiffer, then you need more leverage ... so increasing the grip will give you the added leverage you need.

This is illogical. Tell me why.

Kirk

[VaultPurple]

My best guess is that this was not his first attempt of the day. On his previous attempt, he probably held MUCH LOWER. I won't conjecture on whether or not the coach tapped him on the previous attempt, but it's probably safe to guess that the vaulter didn't have a successful attempt ... or a nearly successful attempt ... with a SLIGHTLY lighter pole or a SLIGHTLY lower grip ... so he shouldn't have moved up to such a heavy pole with such a high grip. He just wasn't running/jumping fast enough on takeoff for his grip.

I really don't think this was a real jump. It looks to me like this was just a take off drill like Jan Johnson used in one of the videos on here previous, and I have seen multiple coaches use. The break was just weird and the pole probably had something wrong with it, not to mention his stiff left arm technique. So I really don't think "tapping" had anything to do with it, because I really don't consider that a tap.

[KirkB]

I really don't think this was a real jump. ... The break was just weird and the pole probably had something wrong with it, not to mention his stiff left arm technique. So I really don't think "tapping" had anything to do with it, because I really don't consider that a tap.

If that wasn't a real attempt at a real jump, then it's a ridiculous drill! Why would you ever want to grip so high on a pole that you're guaranteed to stall out like that? What does that teach you?

The only thing a drill like that is going to teach you is why you shouldn't grip so high on a pole ... and how to block out with your bottom arm! Ridiculous!

It's also ridiculous to say that everything about that vid was fine, so the pole must have been flawed!

And VP, I don't understand your continual defense of tapping. Don't you know that tapping is the root of all evil?

Kirk

[golfdane]

My best guess is that this was not his first attempt of the day. On his previous attempt, he probably held MUCH LOWER. I won't conjecture on whether or not the coach tapped him on the previous attempt, but it's probably safe to guess that the vaulter didn't have a successful attempt ... or a nearly successful attempt ... with a SLIGHTLY lighter pole or a SLIGHTLY lower grip ... so he shouldn't have moved up to such a heavy pole with such a high grip. He just wasn't running/jumping fast enough on takeoff for his grip.

I really don't think this was a real jump. It looks to me like this was just a take off drill like Jan Johnson used in one of the videos on here previous, and I have seen multiple coaches use. The break was just weird and the pole probably had something wrong with it, not to mention his stiff left arm technique. So I really don't think "tapping" had anything to do with it, because I really don't consider that a tap.

I know, and seen this drill been done by 14-15 year old kids. However, it's done from 2 steps (1left) or so. Only a complete fool would do this from a full run-up.
His stiff bottom arm emphasizes a strongly localized high bend. I doubt the there anything to blame on the pole.

[KirkB]

... Only a complete fool would do this from a full run-up. ...

Kirk

[kcvault]

I have seen jan do this drill with vaulters from 1,2, and 3 lefts. The drill is called a jump off and it helps to lern proper body position at take off and learn to create space with the bottom arm. Judging by his speed it looks like he is only running 3 lefts when he does this. You have to be on a big pole when doing this drill however, It is usually done on a long run pole when done from 3 lefts. This pole broke very high I cant imagine there was not a flaw in the pole, However look how much it bent, to do the drill right he would have likly needed to be on a bigger pole. Also a very important part of this drill is to have a spotter you can trust.


Also the goal of this drill is not to get into the pit the vaulter always comes back down on the ground on the drill. (Slowly because of the spot)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9z3jBl07es

---Kasey

[KirkB]

... Judging by his speed it looks like he is only running 3 lefts when he does this. ... I can't imagine there was not a flaw in the pole ...

Come on KC, the "flaw" in the pole was that it was over-bent ... by PRYING on it with the bottom arm! Would YOU do that in a REAL vault?

I'm not going to argue with you ... much ... becuz I usually agree with you ... but it sure looks like he was barreling in from more than 3 lefts!

And what do you mean by "proper body position at take off and learn to create space with the bottom arm"? This sounds to me to be teaching the WRONG body position at takeoff and it sounds like the IMPROPER way to "create space" with the bottom arm. Whether you call it by the euphemism of "creating space" or some other term, it smells like BLOCKING OUT to me!

KC, I'm a 100% firm believer in "creating space" between the pole and your body as the pole bends. However, this can be done simply by penetration ... even to the point of "fiber-facing" ... and by the proper application of force with the TOP HAND.

Many vaulters and coaches seem to think that fiber-facing is a bad thing ... requiring a DIRECT compensating action by pressing with the bottom arm. Personally, I see fiber-facing as not such a bad thing ... as long as you have a good forwards lean (or at least no backwards lean) when the pole is closest to your face. The solution (if any is needed) is to put more of your body weight on your top hand, and less on your bottom hand (yes! this will bend the pole PROPERLY!) ... quite the opposite of BLOCKING OUT!

I'm going to take your comments in the context of your PV career thus far ... remembering that you blocked out and tucked ... badly ... before you decided to improve your technique to more closely follow the Petrov Model. So what you say about your experience with this drill MIGHT be true, but that doesn't make it desirable.

Kirk

[kcvault]

I'm going to take your comments in the context of your PV career thus far ... remembering that you blocked out and tucked ... badly ... before you decided to improve your technique to more closely follow the Petrov Model. So what you say about your experience with this drill MIGHT be true, but that doesn't make it desirable.

I have actually never done this drill I have simple seen it done. I asked Jan to spot me on it once and he said after 50 he only spots girls on the drill. Therefor the exact details of the drill I can not be certain of. Of course there is other ways to teach what this drill is trying to acomplish but I do not belive this drill is useless. I know the major goal of the drill is holding the trail leg back and learning how not to get your hips sucked under. I know Jan teaches a vaulter how to jump properly first with no bottom arm pressure, after a vaulter learns how to swing properly he will use this drill not only as body position drill but also teaching the vaulter to give bottom arm pressure. Never to block, you can give bottom arm pressure with out blocking you just have to allow for the elastic stretch. So this is not a blocking drill but is a bottom arm pressure drill partially. Again I have not done this drill but have seen good coaches and athletes use the drill (Dean starkey, Jan Johnson, Mell Mueller, Sian Brown, obviously Chelsea Johnson) so I apoligize to the people I mentioned if my exsplanation is not doing the drill justice.

---Kasey

[VaultPurple]

I really don't think this was a real jump. ... The break was just weird and the pole probably had something wrong with it, not to mention his stiff left arm technique. So I really don't think "tapping" had anything to do with it, because I really don't consider that a tap.

If that wasn't a real attempt at a real jump, then it's a ridiculous drill! Why would you ever want to grip so high on a pole that you're guaranteed to stall out like that? What does that teach you?

The only thing a drill like that is going to teach you is why you shouldn't grip so high on a pole ... and how to block out with your bottom arm! Ridiculous!

It's also ridiculous to say that everything about that vid was fine, so the pole must have been flawed!

And VP, I don't understand your continual defense of tapping. Don't you know that tapping is the root of all evil?

Kirk

I do not promote tapping, just defend it because that is how I was taught to vault and have seen both benefits and problems with it. Also this very drill is how I was taught what it felt like to bend the pole (yes I probably just stuck my left arm into it, but after a few weeks I was taught not to do that and started bending pole with my speed.. but I did go from 8'6 to 10'6 in about two weeks pretty much bending it like that). I have also see Lojo do it with his vaulters by grabbing their back leg and pushing their chest forward. And I do not support what this guy in the video is doing because he is obviously going way too fast for the drill or on way too soft of a pole for what he is attempting to do.

Benefits to tapping: when you are trying to learn something new in the vault, like your first time from a new step (like me for 8 or 9 lefts i did this). You can easily over think things and run through a million times, but if you have a coach you trust standing there it makes it easier to just do it and not worry about landing in pit. Over summer to learn from 9 lefts my first few times I planted right beside my head with a 15' pole and would have got completely rejected had I not had a spotter, but each time my plant got better and the spotting was no longer necessary.

Negative: Like vaultmd said in other thread, when I was In high school I had a problem where I pretty much had to have someone standing beside the pit weather they were spotting me or not, or I would run through.

But I do not get spotted in college so I have just had to perfect my bail out techniques

[Barto]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but......

This drill is done my many very good and experienced coaches all over the world.

The pole had a nick in it.

Get over it.

[ashcraftpv]

Wow, spend all day in meetings and look what I miss!

Next time I'll some context when i post a link to the video...my bad......

I never meant for this to spur on discussion on the merits of the drill or elicit a critique in form. Its merely a good video of my friend and training partner getting hit in the sack after a pole break. I envisioned the discussion would be more along the lines of "ouch" and "wow that sucks".

Just to end any and all speculation, her are the facts:

This is a video from a 1994 practice session when i was in high school. We were doing johnson/push plant drills from 3 lefts. Randy was very fast and could really bring it from 3 lefts. He was using a 16' 185 yellow catapole (weighing 160+ pounds), which was in his series of long run poles. Our focus for this drill was to work on finishing our takeoff and establishing a good body position off the ground. My coach was old school and taught the big bottom arm, but as he was our only source of PV information back then (no internets yet for us Indiana hicks), that was all we knew how to do. The pole broke into two pieces under the bottom hand, which is consistent with a defect in the pole.