Is heavier better?

[ashcraftpv]

come on guys.....what's one of the mantras we've been using on this board since the beginning:

longer/bigger pole != higher jump

there are way to many variables to factor into determining how high you could jump on X length of pole.

Say you have 2 guys, both are identical in height, speed, vaulting technique, coordination, etc.... except one weighs 160 and the other 200. Given the same pole length, there is no way the 160 guy is going to jump on the same size stick as the 200 guy. It impossible for him to put as much force into the pole as the guy weighing 200 (all physics and stuff). All things being equal, they should jump the same height if they are on the biggest pole possible. The smaller guy will get the same pop from his pole as the bigger guy would.

The larger pole has the "potential" to kick harder, but the return of the pole depends on many, many things, including how fat the vaulter is. I personally think you'll get more out of the same pole if you weigh a little less.

[bjvando]

lets disregard the WEIGHT factor for a moment. lets think more of a height factor(although with height comes weight- and jhesch put it pretty good. MASS doesnt always mean better). The angle at take off is very important. For a person that is 6 '3", with a vertical reach of lets just say 8'. That person is goingto HAVE to hold higher automatically. I am 6'3 ", and i cant swing fast enough for a lower girp, the pole unloads and i cant get on top of it.

So the taller person has a better advantage of gripping higher, and thus jumping higher ( if all technique were equivolant to one another) The average height of a 5.80 + jumper is up there. I dont know the heights of all the elite jumpers, but i think it is safe to say that they are pretty much at least 6 '1" or taller.

Something that a couple caoches had told me, and i believe it.

TEACH A TALL GUY TO JUMP LIKE A 'LITTLE' GUY.

[dafox]

like PVjunkie and jhesch said: you want to be as strong as possible while being as light as possible. Find the happy medium for your body.

[rainbowgirl28]

longer/bigger pole != higher jump

For those of you who are not programmers, != is the same as ?

Edit: Nevermind the symbol won't show up... but it's the equals not symbol

[vaultguru6]

I had to alter my lifting completely. The key is to get STRONG not BIG. Big is a bad side effect to getting strong. The BEST vaulters I have ever worked with got strong with very little increase in mass. In fact back in the day..........when creatin was being used like crazy..........lots of vaulters quit using it because the increased mass was hurting thier vault even though they were "stronger" than before. So the key here is the strength mass tradeoff...................just make it play out so it makes you jump higher NOT lower. DUGH

i don't think anybody disagrees with this statement. More than anything else you need to be AS STRONG (and fast) AS YOU CAN POSSIBLY BE at the weight you are at. Weather that be 130 pounds or 205 pounds, you first need to maiximize strength at that weight before worrying about gaining. However, I still feel that if you can be just as proportionally strong and fast or greater at a higher weight (as in if you gain muscle mass you're going to be able to left the same weight to body weight ratio) then you're going to jump higher at that higher muscle mass. Speed most likely won't increase proportionatley, but if you're at the point where it is decreasing, that is too much weight.

I think the question we need answered is: If object A and object B are traveling at the same speed, but object A has a greater mass than object B, do they both have the same kinetic energy to mass ratio?

I'm not physicist and i don't know the answer.

[vaultguru6]

"Tommy Skipper"

Yea tommy weighs close to 2 bills, but he's not the best example. The kid is bringing 10.7 speed down the runway, and its a powerful 10.7.

[vaultchamp16]

Okay, so Bubka is what, anywhere from 190 to 200 lbs. He was jumping on 5.20 10 points, which are rated at 220 lbs. So he is basically jumping at 20 to 30 lbs above his weight. Now take the 140 lb vaulter and put him on a stick that is 40 lbs above his weight. I can promise that he will not get more blow off the top of his pole than Sergey. Personally, with no scientific evidence at all, I feel as though big poles return with more energy. The ratio doesn't seem to stay constant. The weight of a pole doesn't necessarily give you an indication of its return.

[Oldcoach]

I think the question we need answered is: If object A and object B are traveling at the same speed, but object A has a greater mass than object B, do they both have the same kinetic energy to mass ratio?

K.E. = 1/2 MV^2

So if both are travelling at the same V (speed) then M (mass) is proportional to K.E. (Kinetic Energy) so the ratio of K.E. to Mass is constant for vaulters A and B.

Vaultguru6 - I don't think this helps to explain what your trying to get to.

[jhesch]

of course a big pole is going to return more net energy than a small pole because it takes more energy to bend it than a small pole. however, with respect to the mass of the person on the pole, with all things being equal, the two poles will return the same amount energy. in other words, while a 220 lb. pole will return more energy than a 160 lb. pole, with all things equal, you also must consider that the 220 lb. pole is also supporting 220 lbs. whereas the 160 lb. pole is only supporting 160 lbs. pole, so they're basically the same. but in the case of a lighter person being on a pole rated heavier than themselves, they will receive more energy return than the same weighted person on the same weight pole. (person on heavier pole has a number of factors, mostly speed, that translates to more energy being put into that pole, therefore more enrgy return.) i bet most of the people that read that got more confused than they started. oh well...

[Lord of the Poles]

longer/bigger pole != higher jump

For those of you who are not programmers, != is the same as ?

Edit: Nevermind the symbol won't show up... but it's the equals not symbol

yea. that means not equal to.

for example:

while (height != higher than you can make)
{
clear height;
}

[Skyin' Brian]

of course a big pole is going to return more net energy than a small pole because it takes more energy to bend it than a small pole. however, with respect to the mass of the person on the pole, with all things being equal, the two poles will return the same amount energy. in other words, while a 220 lb. pole will return more energy than a 160 lb. pole, with all things equal, you also must consider that the 220 lb. pole is also supporting 220 lbs. whereas the 160 lb. pole is only supporting 160 lbs. pole, so they're basically the same. but in the case of a lighter person being on a pole rated heavier than themselves, they will receive more energy return than the same weighted person on the same weight pole. (person on heavier pole has a number of factors, mostly speed, that translates to more energy being put into that pole, therefore more enrgy return.) i bet most of the people that read that got more confused than they started. oh well...

i think what you are all forgetting is that weights on poles while they have very important uses and are pretty accurate these days are still somewhat arbitrary in the fact that it is just basically a function of the flex number.

[jhesch]

i realize that weight ratings are basically a function of flex number, and are relatively accurate, give or take a few pounds/kilos. just curious as to what significance this fact has to other previous posts? it seems most of the ideas presented so far still stand true..... are you disagreeing with certain posts or presenting discrepancies... just tryin to understand what you're trying to point out, if anything else besides the fact that weight ratings are somewhat arbitrary...