High School Safety – Weight vs Pole Ratings

[Rhino]

I guess what I am saying is that the answer to this question is proper coaching but how do we legislate that.

This is where my opinion differs from most people's. I don't see legislation as necessary or desirable. Laws (or rules in this case) often have a mix of good and bad consequences. For me to give up my personal responsibility the cost/benefit ratio had better be overwhelmingly favorable.

I was against mandating larger pits because it eliminates the opportunity to vault for many potential participants by its tremendous cost. I will concede that I take advantage of the bigger pits by staying with vaults that I previously would have bailed out of. I think the big pits are great, except for their big cost.

The weight rule hinders the event by the huge cost of increased pole inventory, while its increase of safety is dubious.

I was self-taught as was everyone else in the time and place I came from. The only people who vaulted were the ones who had a natural inclination for it. Now I see schools bringing six or eight vaulters, most of whom can't even figure out which foot to take off from or if the thumbs go up or down. I think these people lack the aerial awareness necessary for safe involvement in the sport and can make the event less safe than if a coach had never gotten them involved. I hurt some feelings occasionally, but I would rather have 2 or 3 who show interest and potential than push more into it to try to scoop up points by lowering the opening height.

Gosh, I'm rambling!

[Tom Wilson]

Our state calls for weigh in. We attended districts today. During one of the early weigh ins one of the girls who weighed in at 130 said I don't weigh that, I weighed 118 this morning. So I put my 189 pounds on the scale and weighed in at 208 on the scale. As more people checked we learned the official scale was way off. A real world example. This reminded me of states a couple years back when my son got weighed. They came up with something like 178 which put him over all his poles. Intimidated by the official he was dejected. As a coach I asked for a re-weigh and he weighed 163 and then able to use all his poles.

It is great that overall safety is better than in my youth and I say it is the better pits, better poles and better coaching. The only part of vaulting I fear for our athletes is the newer vaulters as they move from straight pole-ing to bending. My worry is they will come up short and land in the box. We strongly teach the always hold onto your pole and ride it down but the lesser experinced vaulters don't always pull this off and are at risk only due to this one rule. Thankfully the extended buns on new pits provide a much larger and safer landing area for stalled vaulters. Without the larger buns the pole weight rule could really lead to injury.

[Bruce Caldwell]

IS the glass half full or half empty?
I[color=blue][b] say it is half full and all positive for jumping proper and jumping high!

My point being that before the rule and still to this day all pole manufacturers state that you must use a pole rated at or above your weight.

While I need not go into the safety aspects that all seem to find is the reason for the rule.
Which is one reason on the negative side as to why you need a rule that without,- people would not understand and not follow, therefore would create injuries and many pole breaks. (the glass is half empty)
There is another reason that is on the positive side!( the glass is half full)

The sail piece of the pole only strengthens the portion of the pole that bends the most. Other words below the bottom hand is where you get the mass of the bending.
All poles have a sail piece that reinforces the pole up to about the grip[ area but not including the top 12-18â€Â

[Bruce Caldwell]

YES POLES ARE EXPENSIVE
If you take the poles you have in the shed and only buy what is missing in a year or two you will have a series that can be used no matter what brand it is. I realize poles are expensive I am trying to get the costs down.
Buying smart is the most important way to buy a pole..
Buying a pole fro the unexpected future requires our Xlogic system any one interested?
That was very important info above and no one had any comments????291

[Rhino]

Yes, of course I have some comments. First, thank you for trying to get the costs down. I have taken advantage of these efforts this past year.

Next, just a quick comment about chopping poles:

You said:
[b]One would assume that a 14’6â€Â

[Bruce Caldwell]

As for improved performance, there never has been a rule keeping anyone from using a short, stiff pole if that is the secret to vaulting high (and it very well may be). But I can give a case study documenting a decreased performance as a direct result of the rule.

I have too seen this in some cases BUT IN 99% of these they were never jumping over their handgrip we do not count pole jumping as a part of the pole vault.
Even though clearing the bar is the only criteria if you want to hold 1 foot higher than you clear and ride the pole up like an elevator and hop off you will rarely jump any higher. if you do this technique will require you to hold at least 17' to jump 16'

[Bruce Caldwell]

You pointed out two advantages to the high school weight rule:

1. It is safer.
2. It makes for higher vaulting.

1. Safer due to people not breaking pole using too long of a pole holding lower and on poles closer or under their weight
2. Jumping higher because it is the way to jump on a pole. and a way to maintain progress and timing as you learn how to jump over your handgrip.
Besides it is more than a rule it is a requirement from the manufacturers for safety and to jump
higher

[Bruce Caldwell]

A sophmore beginner weighing 168 lb. started the year using a 13' 150 lb pole and quickly progressed to 11 feet. Now the school didn't have any pole stiffer than a 14' 150 which he had not yet been able to get on when they started weighing at a few meets. The only pole I have over his weight is my prized 14'7" 178.2 which I wasn't about to loan to a newbie and which would have felt like a steel pipe to him anyway. I would have worked him up through my 14' series starting at 140 lbs, but his coach instead found a cheap used 14' 180. Now, I can vault on a 14' 180, but not on this one. I would estimate this to flex more like a modern 190. But it was legal!

After a lot of banging his knees into this behemoth and ripping his shoulder from the shock, he did manage 10', but it wasn't as much fun as clearing 11' with a pole he could bend!

Now isn't that bad a vaulter, clearing right at his handhold on that 150 lb pole. I'm sure he could drop 3 or 4 lbs and get on a 13' 165 pretty quickly, but he doesn't have access to one.

Oh yes get a softer 13' that will only be a quick fix temporarily.
he still should be on 12'0"-170 poles
Yes I realize it is frustrating as this guy could be jumping 12'6"-12'9" if he had the proper length pole in the beginning.
He was a sophomore and this action of a proper length pole could of set him up to jump much higher as a senior.
If the coach had the funds or could get the funds.

I see it every day if a discus thrower can throw farther he gets the best implement he can.
If the athlete wants to be in style and be cool he buys those Nike shoes everyone thinks is cool $125 Plus levis $100. plus a cool $100 Shirt made by Pierre Cardin, not to mention he fossil watch $200 with the 4300 palm pilot cell phone
I think you get the point
If there is a will there is a way.
But only if you have the passion to vaulter higher and properly

[Bruce Caldwell]

If I couldn't hold within the optimum handhold area, I might want to cut the bottom so the sailpiece would still be centered between my grip and the tip of the pole. The only reason I would cut the top is if it got run over and crushed

That is why everyone has this mixed up. The sail is not supposed to be in the center of the grip and the tip!!
It is suppose to be in the center of the bottom grip and the tip
think about it!!

[Tom Wilson]

ESSX asked about important information and wondered why no comments. Seems point comes back to the start that if a school had every pole weight in every length things would be absolutely fine. I started out helping about 4 yrs back and made a list of target poles I guessed would be good. School has been very nice to purchase 1 boys and 1 girls pole each year towards that list. I later stumbled upon the Jan Johnson list and I do think that is a good list. I don’t agree it covers 90% of our vaulters. Any kid over 160 has 2 poles to use unless they weigh 171 and they have none. One could say add a couple more heavy poles and that would help but there are multiple blind spots in any partial list.. However, I still see that a young vaulter will need to transition to bending at first on a pole below their weight.

I would like to ask if ESSX is a pole vaulter and if so have they ever vaulted on a pole under their weight, even when 1st learning? I am thankful for them as a pole manufacturer and certainly respect their technical expertise about poles.

This past weekend I jumped 12-0 holding approx 12- 10 (12-2 in the box) on a 14-165 pole. I weighed 189 that day, am 49 years old and doubt anyone had thoughts I was overbending a pole. Granted that may be “pole jumpingâ€Â

[master]

Keep in mind the course of action per coaching training is that if an athlete lands short on a jump lower the grip or move to a less stiff pole. As a coach responsible for the athlete’s safety, I say for sure #2 is safer yet it is considered illegal due to safety.

Please explain how "move to a less stiff pole" is safer?

- master

[Rhino]

Keep in mind the course of action per coaching training is that if an athlete lands short on a jump lower the grip or move to a less stiff pole. As a coach responsible for the athlete’s safety, I say for sure #2 is safer yet it is considered illegal due to safety.

Please explain how "move to a less stiff pole" is safer?

- master

I can't see how it can be questioned. If you lack penetration, drop your grip and go to a softer pole and land on the pit. That is safer.