deaths and injuries

[Pogo Stick]

Recent tragic death of Leon Roach made me thinking about something. Does anyone has data or statistics about how many vaulters outside US have been killed or seriously injured? I would like to know if such tragic events are more often in US than in rest of the world and if yes why is that so?

[Bubba PV]

I'm quite certain that Jan Johnson does. He always has. Bubba

[rainbowgirl28]

It's impossible to say because it is extremely unlikely that deaths outside the US - especially in non-European countries - are consistently reported. The US has way more participants than any other country, by probably several orders of magnitude. So I doubt that the deaths per capita are any higher here.

Jan might know of a few non-US deaths, but it's not his job to collect that data (no one does) and I doubt he knows details of many.

I will say that the US requires larger pads than anywhere else in the world and we have only had one pole vaulting death since 2002 (Leon Roach was not pole vaulting).

[joebro391]

I will say that the US requires larger pads than anywhere else in the world and we have only had one pole vaulting death since 2002 (Leon Roach was not pole vaulting).

I remember that one kid, either last year, or the year before, in oregon, i think. My coaches used to talk about this kid that died in NJ, but i think when they said "a few years ago", they were referring to the 90's. not sure, but i agree with becca, as far as i know, the US has the strongest restrictions on pit-size. -6P

[golfdane]

I wonder..... There are no pit restrictions in Denmark. Only a set of recommendations that are no where near the US regulation pit size. Still, the only one I have seen, that have been anywhere near of not landing on the mat, should probably not be allowed to vault at all.

The emphasis on penetration into the pit is crucial. A solid technical foundation, that focuses on safety, is much more important than pit size. Just my humble opinion.

[VTechVaulter]

i think the US is one of the few places that have any regulations on pit size. this training base in stuttgart has this indoor pit i remember jumping in thtas not much bigger than a high jump mat with front buns. however, reguardless of that... im guessing the US has many many many more polevaulters than any other country, which gives a higher probability of catastrophic injury. not that this is an excuse or saying nothing is wrong, just saying theres already a higher potential

[golfdane]

i think the US is one of the few places that have any regulations on pit size. this training base in stuttgart has this indoor pit i remember jumping in thtas not much bigger than a high jump mat with front buns. however, reguardless of that... im guessing the US has many many many more polevaulters than any other country, which gives a higher probability of catastrophic injury. not that this is an excuse or saying nothing is wrong, just saying theres already a higher potential

True. Pole vault has the potential for unsafe execution, and accidents DO happen. My point was, the focus should be on safety in execution from the first moment they grab a pole, rather than turning a blind eye, and just demand bigger pits and padding all around. I know you feel the same, and so do all on this board, I suspect.

[rainbowgirl28]

My point was, the focus should be on safety in execution from the first moment they grab a pole, rather than turning a blind eye, and just demand bigger pits and padding all around. I know you feel the same, and so do all on this board, I suspect.

There have been extensive efforts nationwide to improve coaching education. I think it's difficult for those overseas to understand how BIG the US is, and how many different groups are in charge of various levels of track and field. There is no ONE agency over all of it. USATF has very little power over high school and college level track and field which is where the majority of the accidents are. The high school federation has left it up to each state to determine their coaching education (which I think is wise) so that is over 50 different state associations (some states have more than one), plus NCAA, plus NAIA, plus all the various Junior College organizaitons, plus USATF youth programs, plus elite and masters stuff.

It's not like smaller countries where you can just pull all of the coaches together on one weekend and decide how you want to do things.

While not solving the root of the problem, catastrophic injuries have decreased dramtically since we started requiring bigger pits in 2003. As far as I know, every single catastropic injury that has occured since then has come from a facility that did not meet existing rules.

There are many of us who are working hard to improve the knowledge of the coaches in the United States. I think it's come a long way in the past 10 years, but there is a lot of work left to go. There's no one coaching education solution that can be applied to all different levels of the sport in all different regions of the country. I think every knowledgeable coach in this country would agree that teaching kids to vault safer is the most important thing, but that making pits bigger has been an effective band-aid in the meantime.

[Andy_C]

As far as Australia goes, I don't think anybody has ever died, I could be wrong - plenty of injuries and close calls though I'm sure.

In terms of safety however, I still think the most important thing is safe practice during a training session. Of course safety gear is always helpful but instead on relying on your seat belt to keep you alive in a car accident, you should be focused more on driving safely.

It's a global problem - lots of coaches teaching very dangerous things. Sometimes things may not be so dangerous but unfortunately for the US, with the highest volume of vaulters in the world, you're going to have accidents more frequently, sometimes it's just pure probability. Unfortunately you'll have a freak accident every now and then. But at the same time you're getting A LOT of narrow misses from people doing dangerous things. The more narrow misses you have the greater the chance for one of those to go REALLY wrong!

Again, it's all down to basics - proper technique is the most important safety measure you can have. But as mentioned before it's hard to "streamline" pole vault education, heck Australia has a problem with it as well and we've only have 20 million people! You'd think we'd be able to get all the PV coaches together and say, "look, this is how you do [X]." But it simply isn't the case, everybody has their own ideas. It's a huge problem and if it was easily fixed it would have been solved by now.

[rainbowgirl28]

In fairness to Australia, I do appreciate that even though your population is fairly small, you're quite large geographically!

[golfdane]

While not solving the root of the problem, catastrophic injuries have decreased dramtically since we started requiring bigger pits in 2003. As far as I know, every single catastropic injury that has occured since then has come from a facility that did not meet existing rules.

There are many of us who are working hard to improve the knowledge of the coaches in the United States. I think it's come a long way in the past 10 years, but there is a lot of work left to go. There's no one coaching education solution that can be applied to all different levels of the sport in all different regions of the country. I think every knowledgeable coach in this country would agree that teaching kids to vault safer is the most important thing, but that making pits bigger has been an effective band-aid in the meantime.

And your site certainly adds positively to that education!

But as Andy says: You could decrease the amount of deaths in traffic by learning people to drive safely, rather than building more lanes and adding airbags.
The problem arises, if someone thinks pit safety is the holy grail of avoiding disaster (rather like how many percieve driving electronics and airbags). It's nice to have, but you're better off if safety in execution is put before ANYTHING else.

I perfectly understand, that the US is HUGE, but you did manage to enforce pit safety (most likely not trouble free). I just think, that on the same note should have been a much bigger focus on safety and education as you and I understand it.

[dj]

good morning

Fixing the run is the number one issue to promote safety.

I proposed to Jan (who agrees that the run is the first step, after the equipment and pits, to promoting safety) on day one of the “safety board’ creation, years ago I tried to get them to use the 6 step check mark instead of the 4.. they put in the 4 with runway markers and all... unfortunately a 4 step check didn’t help the problem!!!

If you stretch or stutter you will plant wrong 90% , especially with a stretch, of the time..

If the plant is off or if you don’t have the force (speed) for the grip you are holding you are at risk….

Fix the run.. use my 6 stride chart “correctly” and you will vault safer…

The only issue I have had when the athlete fixes the run is they run faster and are at risk of going over the pit not to the side or in the box… you solve that with the correct grip.

dj