PoleVaultPower.com

It may seem strange to you that I'm asking this question, since a quick search on PVP suggests that I'm the one that coined the word ... about a year ago.

But I'm really not sure what "Petrover" means ... beyond having something to do with the coaching techniques of Vitaly Petrov ... as practiced and made world-famous by his two WR-holding proteges ... Sergey Bubka and Yelena Isinbaeva.

This poll might help to clarify this ... along with your comments.

Kirk

The options aren't really mutually exclusive, but in the end I just went with #3 because it is the most general.

If you recognize the Petrov model as the superior technical model, then you are a "Petrover in mind".

If you use the Petrov model (or at least attempt to to some degree of success) and/or use Petrov's drills with the goal of achieving the perfection of the Petrov model, you are a "Petrover in practice".

It wouldn't make sense to have a "Petrover in practice" who isn't a "Petrover in mind"... Why would you pursue a model that you feel is inferior to another model?

It might make sense to be a "Petrover in mind" without being a "Petrover in practice" in some cases... If an athlete has a well established career using some other model and the perceived risk of taking the time to fix his jump outweighs the perceived benefit, then this could happen.

6P, just to stir the pot a bit, here's a quote from you ... from this thread: http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=18131&p=132932&hilit=petrover#p132932

joebro391 wrote:

KirkB wrote:6P, you imply that Hooker and Parnov don't follow the Petrov Model. They do.

... the take-off is not free enough and the knee-drop erks me. ... he's not a true petrover until he stops dropping the knee ...

I would have added this point to the poll, but the way these polls work, you can't edit them once you post them. So if you agree or disagree with this point, please explain.

PP, I know the options aren't mutually exclusive. That's why I set this poll up to allow you to check off as many as you agree with!

And for guys like you ... or anyone that changes their mind ... I've allowed you to change your vote at any time.

Kirk

I vote for "other".

True Believers!

It seems that when a vaulter approaches 6 meters they automatically become an example of the Petrov method.

Just because facts are ignored, it does not mean that they go away. Aldous Huxley

Doug Balcomb
PV Coach, Colfax HS

Hahaha, I am an Andjei'er. He taught me the Petrov model before Petrov became popular.... 1985. Saw all the drills and exercises between 85 and 92 when I worked with him and became friends.

Rick Baggett
WSTC

It seems like a lot of "Petrovers" don't actually know Petrov or exactly what he teaches. They just think one should pole vault correctly! Good pole carry and drop, good posture, good plant, good take-off, good swing, etc. Seems like if you don't agree, you should go do a different sport.

Sorry old son I prefer the term Petrovite - sounds much more old school Soviet Union! But i wish you had not dragged me into the discussion by citing BTB - I have enough problems that I cause for myself without you adding to them. However some points that may or may not clarify a few things.

1. Hahaha, I am an Andjei'er. He taught me the Petrov model before Petrov became popular.... 1985. Saw all the drills and exercises between 85 and 92 when I worked with him and became friends." It is difficult to know to what extent there was an exchange of ideas behind the wall in the late 70's but you would expect there to have been some collaboration. Certainly Slusarski was using a free take off in 76 but when I spent two weeks with AK watching him work with Slusarski and Kosak in Warsaw in January 79 the only thing I can recall picking up that related to what we could now call the Petrov model was a toe tip or in essence a free take off. While Petrov did not present his model until July 85 in Birmingham England, Bubka had already demonstrated it in winning the 82 World Championships as a 20 year old - where incidentally he was pushed into the team ahead of Parnov - who should have been selected. Would have been using the USA system, of first three past the post.
2. "It seems that when a vaulter approaches 6 meters they automatically become an example of the Petrov method." First I would like to see any example of where anyone has suggested that on PVP. In BTB I analysed Jeff Hartwigs (6.03) technique and implied that had his technique been based on the Petrov model he would have jumped higher. I also noted that Ockert Brits -who also jumped 6.03 -was handicapped by an inefficient - ie non Petrov - technique.
3. "It seems like a lot of "Petrovers" don't actually know Petrov or exactly what he teaches.They just think one should pole vault correctly! Good pole carry and drop, good posture, good plant, good take-off, good swing, etc. Seems like if you don't agree, you should go do a different sport." The problem is what do you mean by good - obviously many coaches believe that it is starting from the back like a sprinter, carrying the pole with the bottom hand on top not under, taking off under ,jamiing the left arm in hard and straight, bending the pole as much as possible before you leave the ground, then tucking and shooting etc etc. If that is what you mean be good - and i am sure YOU dont - then it is certainly not the Petrov model and in my view certainly not good.
4. re Steve. I believe that he is now a Parnovite - to coin a phrase - because I think Alex does tend to favour the dropping of the free leg after take off. He has never told me that but i have seen it in Markov -where I believe it stopped him from jumping 6.15 - and with Alex's daughters doing their drills. Will try and get a definitive statement on that.

altius wrote: ... I prefer the term Petrovite - sounds much more old school Soviet Union!

For the record, the term Petrovite was first used on PVP in 2005 by mikepv1 ... not sure who you are ... but please stand up and take credit for coining the term ... at least on PVP!

A quick search of the word also verifies that you, Altius, have consistently used the word Petrovite ... as you say ... and not Petrover ... since March, 2009.

To my surprise, I ALSO used the word Petrovite instead of Petrover ... in a couple different posts in June 2009 several months after I coined the word Petrover. So it seems that you can use the 2 words interchangeably ... and even I can't remember from one instance to the next which one to use! I think I'll stick to Petrover tho ... since the Soviet Union is now history.

altius wrote: But i wish you had not dragged me into the discussion by citing BTB - I have enough problems that I cause for myself without you adding to them.

I know you're just being modest when you say that ... by mentioning BTB2 ... this thread draws even more attention to your hit book! Some vaulters even believe that you're not a true blue Petrover without owning the book ... and reading it cover to cover! Besides, this thread gives you a soap-box to strut your stuff.

This thread would not be the same without your usual thought-provoking, interesting, and usual down-to-earth advice.

altius wrote:

baggettpv wrote: 1. Hahaha, I am an Andjei'er. He taught me the Petrov model before Petrov became popular.... 1985.

Hahaha! I guess that makes me a Bryder. Or maybe a Shannonite. Ken Shannon (U. Washington; ex-UCLA) learned his stuff from Tom Telez, but Coach Shannon and I developed the finer points of my Bryde Bend technique together ... collaboratively ... culminating in 1971 ... with the high pole carry; weightless pole drop; jump HARD before the pole hits the box; trail leg backwards/upwards stretch; vigorous downswing and whip; early inversion; and continuous trail leg motion. Credit goes to Isaksson re the high pole carry.

We learned the Petrov Model before Petrov became popular ... AND before Andjei and Slusarski became renowned ... 1968-1971!

altius wrote: 4. re Steve. I believe that he is now a Parnovite - to coin a phrase - because I think Alex does tend to favour the dropping of the free leg after take off. He has never told me that but i have seen it in Markov -where I believe it stopped him from jumping 6.15 ...

Interesting that you separate Parnov from Petrov ... by the lead knee drop. I thought I read in BTB2 that you considered it just another "style" (variant) of the Petrov Model. Personally ... even if you hadn't written that ... if indeed you did - not sure ... I see it as just a minor variant. And I see it as an ADVANTAGE to Hooker ... whereas your characterization of Markov is that it was a distinct DISADVANTAGE. I won't go there ... since I've only seen a few vids of Markov ... but in Hooker's case, do you really think he'd be better off by keeping that knee up?

Kirk

" but in Hooker's case, do you really think he'd be better off by keeping that knee up?" Yes indeed - but who am I to disagree with a guy who has coached two different world champions?

altius wrote:" but in Hooker's case, do you really think he'd be better off by keeping that knee up?" Yes indeed - but who am I to disagree with a guy who has coached two different world champions?

"Pole vault – the state of the art"
By Vitaly Petrov
New Studies in Athletics, no. 3/2004

Question: Is the drop of the swinging leg during
the hang losing its importance?
Answer: At present top vaulters and their
coaches pay more attention to the quickness
and the amplitude (depth) of the “drive” on
the pole than to the external observance of
the position.

NOTE: "drop swinging leg" sounds to me like oxymoron. Probably something has been lost in translation. It should be "drop lead knee (leg)".
Judging by this quotation, it doesn't looks that Petrov is against dropping leg. It looks for him this is more matter of style. Of course, maybe I totally missed the point and the question was really about dropping swinging leg.

Two athletes he was more involved in their earlier development (Bubka & Gibilisco) don't drop the knee. Elena doesn't drop the knee but she didn't before Petrov. Fabiana Murer did and still do and doesn't look Petrov is trying to change that.
It will be interesting to hear does Agapit try to change Lawrence Johnson's knee drop. As far as I can see from videos, he did not.
I agree that Markov wasn't covered pole completely because of drop, but Hooker and Lukyanenko have no such problem despite lowering knee.
I presume that changing of such habit requires lot of time and the time is precious to elite athletes. They simply have no couple years to change something that can add few centimeters or maybe do more harm than good during the process (lost income, medals, and sponsors).

Pogo Stick wrote: "Pole vault – the state of the art"
By Vitaly Petrov
New Studies in Athletics, no. 3/2004

Question: Is the drop of the swinging leg during the hang losing its importance?

Answer: At present top vaulters and their coaches pay more attention to the quickness and the amplitude (depth) of hte “drive” on the pole than to the external observance of the position.

NOTE: "drop swinging leg" sounds to me like oxymoron. Probably something has been lost in translation. It should be "drop lead knee (leg)".
Judging by this quotation, it doesn't looks that Petrov is against dropping leg. It looks for him this is more matter of style. Of course, maybe I totally missed the point and the question was really about dropping swinging leg.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the swinging leg is the lead leg ... not the trail leg. Sounds backwards to me, but I remember seeing that somewhere ... not sure where (or why).

Kirk

Literal translation of German "Schwungbein" = lead leg

./.

Quite often, on these pages it sounds as if a coach could model the technique of his athletes down to the smallest detail.

It starts with the first step of the run-up.
Compare:

World record 5,01

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=OJbT3oE ... re=related

World record 5,06

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=Dkm7ZXD ... re=related

In so far it seems Petrov has been successful.

Does anybody has videos of S. Bubkas brother or other former vaulters trained from scratch by V. Petrov. This could give us some idea in how far he could put his theories into practice for the rest of the vault.