Let's talk about rowing

[sooch90]

Hello, I just wanted to get your thoughts on "rowing." I hear this word thrown around a lot, and people keep saying "oh you should row more" or "oh you're rowing too much" or others who don't even like the term "rowing" at all. From what I know, rowing is putting pressure with the top hand, but when it's overdone, it causes the pole to move out in front of the body too much? Is this true? What are your thoughts on the optimal amount of "rowing"?

And even more importantly, what are your methods to correcting this habit? Any drills? The only drill I'm away of is using a stubby, and swing your feet to the pole, while simulating the act of putting pressure with the top hand, but not pushing it out infront of your body.

Thanks guy!

[powerplant42]

I've read that if you push down on the pole hard enough, you'll make it unbend too soon and that instead, you should swing your legs up to your hands. But you're right, this is a confusing topic. I'm not so sure about it. Maybe we could get a once and for all yes or no from one of the really knowledgable coaches on this board

[vault3rb0y]

obviously im not a coach, but ive been coached on this point lots of times. From what i know, rowing is not good. I dont know who told you to row MORE but i cant picture a situation where you would need to do that. It slows your body from penetrating quickly, and blocks some of the energy from your swing, because you are "blocking yourself out"... or not giving your legs room to move up the pole. On jumps where i concentrate on getting my hands UP rather than rowing outward, i finish the jump well 90% of the time. Also if you think about it, it seems like rowing would slow the speed of your swing, because when your hands are high over your head, your torso and arm muscles are stretched and can give more energy into your swing. Its a whole body action, while if you row it seems like the only power for a swing is coming from your abs, which isnt as efficient as all the muscles from your triceps to your toes.

As for drills, rings obviously will help since your hands are forced to be high over your head. But other than that, just think about getting your hands high and staying high until you pull. Have a coach yell that at you every practice for about 6 months and you might stop rowing a little .

Im sure there are some great coaches who can explain it better, thats just what ive been taught.

[sooch90]

haha no one ever told me to row more, it was just an arbitrary phrase that included the word "rowing" that i threw in.

I've always kind of been doubtful of the existance of a thing called "rowing." I think it started me never intentionally rowing or putting pressure with my hands in that direction. In a sense I guess I thought that it would look like a person was rowing because the pole was just bending more. I guess it doesn't make much sense, but as I learn more about pole vaulting, I'm finding that the action of "rowing" seems to be causing me some problems.

I found that when I jump on a lighter pole that I'm a little more comfortable with, it's much easier to swing up and pull through. However, on heavier poles, it's much more difficult. Now this problem is probably caused by numerous factors, but I think rowing is one of them. Probably because I get a little mental on bigger poles, and put unecessary pressure instead of trusting the pole to bring me safely over the mats. However, this almost NEVER happens when I vault at meets. For some reason, when a bar is there, I don't row nearly as much.

So yeah, that's just my experience

[powerplant42]

Well that's good. Yeah, I think this whole subject is a little bit too murky. The truth needs to get out there! I know that a lot of coaches teach it, but I know that it's bad. Here's a great article on it from PVEI:
http://www.pvei.com/fusion/readarticle.php?article_id=16

[mcminkz05]

I would not agree with the term "Rowing", however applying downward pressure with your hands is necessary. Whether you realize you are doing it or not, you probably are to some extent.

You do not want to rip down on the pole, however applying pressure with your arms helps to rotate your hips higer.. Try it on the rings if you like.. try swinging without moving your arms... the try swinging while aggressivly applying pressure with your shoulders.. I bet your hips end up MUCH higher rather than you having to tuck and then shoot your hips up. It doesn't slow down movement of the pole, it helps to keep the pole moving and "rolling over" while getting your hips in a much better position to catch the recoil. If you just swing your trail leg but don't move your arm, you will end up with your hips lower than your shoulder, and then what?

vaulterboy I think by trying to keep your hands up (I do the same thing), you are also initiating pressure with your arm and shoulders once you take off and try to keep them reaching "up" thus helping your swing. You certainly do want to keep that lever as long as possilbe with your arms, you don't want to bend the arms and try to "ROW" with your biceps.

I have been coaching high school vaulters at a clinic all summer long, and I have yet to see telling them to apply pressure with their shoulders not improve their swing and hip position on top. Just my thoughts..

[vault3rb0y]

Of course there is pressure from the top hand, otherwise the pole would have no connection to the vaulter. I would define rowing as when the hands move past the ideal position over your head, and you are no longer underneath your hands, they are in front of you a bit. Moving them forward will cause the pole to bend a little more, but since you are now behind the pole a bit, you will have trouble swinging as fast as you could with your hands over your head. If you define rowing as any downward pressure, of course we all do it. But its to what extent. I define rowing as moving your hands forward, out of the ideal position over your head.

As for the ring idea, to test the pressure of your arms, i feel that i swing best when every muscle from my arms to my trail leg is expanded and then contracted. But theres two ways to do that: starting with the muscles in your arms, which i think might cause rowing. or: starting with your quad and hip flexor, and then up your abs and arms. I know you need pressure with your hands to stay in line with the pole, but i think the swing should be initiated with your trail leg first, and then your upper body.

Pretty much, i feel you can apply as much pressure using your shoulders and arms on the pole as you want, as long as your hands dont move out in front of your body, because you wont penetrate.

[mcminkz05]

Well (obviously) I define rowing as downward pressure through the shoulders and arms... now we have been taught to move the arms before the trail leg to help move the hips up early on in the vault. However that is a very interesting idea you have about applying pressure but not getting your hands in front of you.. I think I will try that next time I vault. So how do you apply downward force through your shoulders but keep your hands above your head the entire time?

[powerplant42]

See, this is that murkiness I was talking about...

[swtvault]

The biggest problem with rowing (or any arm pressure) is that it usually will cause the pole to bend to early, which in turn causes you to get stuck in the L position chasing an unbending pole. Also, you are inhibiting the poles natural tendency to roll over. You are much better off thinking of swinging, and opening the chest at take-off. You don't need to force the pole to bend or force position. Let the pole work for you, and focus on allowing the pole to rotate and increasing swing speed.

[vault3rb0y]

Well (obviously) I define rowing as downward pressure through the shoulders and arms... now we have been taught to move the arms before the trail leg to help move the hips up early on in the vault. However that is a very interesting idea you have about applying pressure but not getting your hands in front of you.. I think I will try that next time I vault. So how do you apply downward force through your shoulders but keep your hands above your head the entire time?

I feel its more pressure not force.... and the pressure is meant to stabilize your hands over your head. Just because your hands are applying pressure to something does not mean that something needs to move. The only reason i say there is pressure from your shoulders and arms into the pole, is because without that stabilizing pressure, the pole would just jam your arms backwards and you would hit the pole with your head (as some people do).

[vault3rb0y]

The biggest problem with rowing (or any arm pressure) is that it usually will cause the pole to bend to early, which in turn causes you to get stuck in the L position chasing an unbending pole. Also, you are inhibiting the poles natural tendency to roll over. You are much better off thinking of swinging, and opening the chest at take-off. You don't need to force the pole to bend or force position. Let the pole work for you, and focus on allowing the pole to rotate and increasing swing speed.

I like the way this was phrased, and i think you are right .