New poles, much needed advise.

[Pogo Stick]

hey

The pole pattern/design/brand (because of pattern) will dictate technique 90% of the time...
.....especially the pole design you begin to learn to vault on. Bubka would not be the "model" without the pole pattern he jumped on and where he gripped on that pole...

For a pole to "load" from a free takeoff/naturally according to Petrov and the model...from the transfer of the body weight the pattern has to "allow" that to happen many designs are not made that way.

And yes we have had this conversation before...

dj

some athletes want and excuse.... others become champions.....

born2fly is not Bubka nor Lobinger. She is 4m (13') vaulter.
As mentioned above, Bubka jumped 6m+ on "ancient" Pacer III. During first 10 years of his training (the most critical period in development, when he basically learned everything) he was probably using more old Themoflex, CataPole and SkyPole than Pacer III poles. I bet that any average US high school had more poles than Donetsk in '80.

[dj]

Pogo

What am I missing here??

The old Pacers/Pacer III's were the fundamental technology/patterns for the spirit poles.

I've used them all and checked the patterns on all of them.

Gripping 4.99m on a 5m pole made with a George Moore/Herb Jenks pattern "allowed" Bubka to jump the way he did. It was all action/reaction. He was taught how to run plant and takeoff correctly. The pole bent correctly with that "input' and allowed him to have the 'spacing", max bend, swing radius and speed on the swing that he had to make it a successful jump….. he "loaded" and unloaded the pole..the pole was made to accept it in that manner..

a different design would not have done that.. some designs force the athlete to "force bend" or press the pole until they can swing to inversion.(if they are strong enough or athletic enough). others do not..

Why do Golf Clubs have different "characteristics"… and what are those characteristics based on??? Input of force..and to get a "predictable" result!

Patterns and material will and can determine the resultant technique.

dj

[Pogo Stick]

Pogo

What am I missing here??

The old Pacers/Pacer III's were the fundamental technology/patterns for the spirit poles.

I've used them all and checked the patterns on all of them.

Gripping 4.99m on a 5m pole made with a George Moore/Herb Jenks pattern "allowed" Bubka to jump the way he did. It was all action/reaction. He was taught how to run plant and takeoff correctly. The pole bent correctly with that "input' and allowed him to have the 'spacing", max bend, swing radius and speed on the swing that he had to make it a successful jump….. he "loaded" and unloaded the pole..the pole was made to accept it in that manner..

a different design would not have done that.. some designs force the athlete to "force bend" or press the pole until they can swing to inversion.(if they are strong enough or athletic enough). others do not..

Why do Golf Clubs have different "characteristics"… and what are those characteristics based on??? Input of force..and to get a "predictable" result!

Patterns and material will and can determine the resultant technique.

dj

We moved pretty far from original question...
In my opinion any pole brand will be good for her. The differences between brands will not impact nor limit her development. The more important is to have all poles in series of the same brand and same type. 4m vaulters usually have much more important things to fix and to think about than pole bending characteristics.
In a blind test I think 80% of vaulters will not notice any difference between Spirit and Pacer or ESSX.

[Pogo Stick]

Pogo

What am I missing here??

The old Pacers/Pacer III's were the fundamental technology/patterns for the spirit poles.

I've used them all and checked the patterns on all of them.

What you are missing is that young Bubka from his years 10-15 almost had no access to Pacer III poles. In late '70 Pacer III poles (top model then) certainly were not so spread and easy available in USSR as were in USA. I have first-hand knowledge what poles certain well known vaulters from Russia, Bulgaria and Poland were using in '80. Beside that, here is what Roman said:
http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=6084&view=unread#p51516

"When I started vaulting in Russia in 1979 we hardly had any fiberglass poles. When I got to 16' in high school my first sky pole was 16'6" 175 with my body weight at 158LBS. I have no-heighted in 50% of competitions. We just did not have poles. I did not know until much later that 16' and 15' poles existed at all."

[PVJunkie]

The Pacer patterns belong to the Pacer Company which was purchased by Gill, along with several patents protecting certain aspects of the Pacer III pole. Those pattens along with the patents (and several of the original employees) came to Champaign with the purchase and coutinued to be a part of the brand. Unless some level of patent infringment or impropiety took place the introduction of the Spirit pole could not have been a rusult of the fundamental Pacer technology/patterns as suggested.

In the example given, golf clubs, there are thousands of different characteristics and no 2 pro golfers use the same set up. This is the driving force behind the different brands offered with different performance characteristics. No one pole can fit every vaulting style. World records and championship medals have been won on lots of styles/brands of poles. Ask any vaulter, from 50, 30, 10 etc years ago what they thought of their pole at the time, it was the best and most likely still is.

Historically poles were tested by having a select few vaulters test different designs and then tweaking them to fit that group. The problem with this is that you end up with a pole that fits a very specific jumping style/individual and you get further away from the best possible design. The difference is that the poles of today (at least the ones here at Gill) have science and labratory testing in them not just opinion based on a few vaulters. Feedback is important but it is done on a much broader scale now.

As odd as this may sound the Skypole may be the one pole, based on the sucess of the widest variety of users over the longest period of time, that fits more vaulters than any other.

[PVJunkie]

I would like to eventually get around to helping with the original questions. Born2Fly if you get a chance (and we have not scared you away) provide some additional information from the earlier questions and we will try to be more on point from here on out, at least I will.

[dj]

hey

no problem case closed from this point of view..

dj