Trouble getting complete inversion

[kenziemarie]

I've had this problem for quite some time now, and I can't seem to be able to get past it. For the most part my runway and plant are consistent (I've been able to get on poles 20lbs over my weight), but I can't ever reach a full invert (see video below). I can get my legs up to the top of the pole, but I can't extend from there, and I end up "flagging out" horizontally. It feels as though my center of mass is not underneath the pole when it is loaded (aka my butt and hips), so it is physically impossible for me to complete the invert. I've also noticed that the pole is almost straight by the time my legs reach the pole, and by that point I should already be extending. Is there anything I can do that will help this? Is it a strength issue? Or a timing issue? My coach isn't really a vault coach, so he can only help me so much.

https://youtu.be/tJrU9rDK7xY

I know in this video that my trail leg is horrible. But even keeping it long doesn't seem to change much as far as getting completely inverted. I feel like this is really inhibiting the heights I could be making. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated!!

[Cat lady]

I'm with Tim McMichael. Inversion is an overused expression.
Without writing a book about how to pole vault,
here are three suggestions:
Try to touch your left shin to the pole under your top hand.
Aggressively extend your hips upward, flexing your feet, as opposed to pointing your toes.
Using both arms, pull your top hand to your face, keeping your back to the bar longer before you start to turn.
Check the Skyjumpers website for a plethora
of information. Get your hands on a copy of
Mechanics of the Pole Vault. Theres a great article contained therein which is relevant to your query, written by Steve Smith.
Think extension, not inversion.
Good luck.

[PVstudent]

I'm with Tim McMichael. Inversion is an overused expression.
Without writing a book about how to pole vault,
here are three suggestions:
Try to touch your left shin to the pole under your top hand.
Aggressively extend your hips upward, flexing your feet, as opposed to pointing your toes.
Using both arms, pull your top hand to your face, keeping your back to the bar longer before you start to turn.
Check the Skyjumpers website for a plethora
of information. Get your hands on a copy of
Mechanics of the Pole Vault. Theres a great article contained therein which is relevant to your query, written by Steve Smith.
Think extension, not inversion.
Good luck.

I am particularly interested in your advice (2nd suggestion).

What is your explanation for the advice in suggestion 2 "...flexing your feet, as opposed to your toes"? (I am assuming you mean dorsi-flexing the ankles?) I am not trying to be smart I just want to find out your reasons for giving the vaulter such advice.

You refer to an article by Steve Smith in Mechanics of Pole Vault. I assume you refer to Richard Ganslen's Mechanics of Pole Vault. In what edition can I find the article? If this is not the source could you provide a full reference so that I can locate and read the article?

[Cat lady]

You are correct. 1980 edition.
I read the toe thing in another book and a friend recommended it before then. He jumped with Istvan Bagula.
Was also going to reccomend keeping the right shin moving opposite the pit once hips are above shoulders.

[PVstudent]

Thank you Cat lady. I will consult my copy of the Old Testament Pole Vault Bible 1980 (9th edition).

I will try to discover if there is a rationale for the ankle dorsiflexion idea? If anyone else can provide it I would love to find out? It does not make much sense from either an anatomical or mechanical perspective to me. I await to hear from anyone who has reasons for this action which was prevalent briefly in the late 1960's and early 70's.

[Cat lady]

You can refer to Brian Ferry's book Modern Pole Vaulting, for an explaination. If you want to try it,
do a Bubka with feet flexed and toes pointed, and see which works better. I'm not sure why it works, sorta like the flight of the bumblebee, you dig.
Did the original poster lose interest?

[grandevaulter]

I will try to discover if there is a rationale for the ankle dorsiflexion idea? If anyone else can provide it I would love to find out? It does not make much sense from either an anatomical or mechanical perspective to me.

When Altius was here he talked to us about flexing the foot at the end of the whip kick and up. Play this youtube of Petrov ahead to 16:00 and he explains in broken English how the flexed foot works in a giant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMWe_VKlsc8

[PVstudent]

I will try to discover if there is a rationale for the ankle dorsiflexion idea? If anyone else can provide it I would love to find out? It does not make much sense from either an anatomical or mechanical perspective to me.

When Altius was here he talked to us about flexing the foot at the end of the whip kick and up. Play this youtube of Petrov ahead to 16:00 and he explains in broken English how the flexed foot works in a giant. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMWe_VKlsc8

I know how the Canali approach works. This is why I questioned the action of dorsi - flexion ( pulling the foot towards the shin). The exercise shown at 16.00 in the video has its objective the active engagement of the hamstring muscles in the kinetic chain of muscle action producing active plantar flexion (movement of the foot away from the shin "stretch the ankle and curl the toes"). The exercise purpose was to increase the mobility and dynamic strength of the ankle plantar and dorsi-flexor muscle groups and increase the active motion range at the ankle joint.

The demonstrator (Reno 2005) and the demonstrators in the video shown from 16.00 to the end of the video in performing clear hip circles, kip actions and giants do so with ankles in the plantar flexed end range of motion (ie. foot shin angle is greater than 90 degrees that is to say
(" turned away from the shins not towards the shins!").

Canali, and Petrov for that matter, so far as I am aware do not advocate dorsi-flexing the feet towards the shins, remember that I have visited and even lived (Longest continuous period of residence was 3 months and shortest 3 weeks having visited on a number of different occasions from 1999 to 2004) in the training centre at Formia with athletes being coached by Petrov.

The key point is that the hamstring muscles have to be engaged dynamically so that the pole recoil and body shape trunk-pelvis and shoulder-trunk muscle complexes co-ordinate to achieve the transfer of pole recoil to the vaulter. This is achieved in the powerful change of shape from the chest leading into the stretch (reverse C) and swing into the front side "Chest In curved shape - front dish" (dynamic C through chest and trunk-abdominal-pelvic linkage chain).

The machine used in the giant circles stopped the recoil transfer to the vaulter if the body shaping and effort timing and co-ordination was not sequenced correctly. I note that Canali's video does not advocate "dorsi-flexing the ankles" in swinging to "cover the pole" in the culminating phase of inversion.

I concur with this viewpoint because it makes anatomical and biomechanical sense and correctly, in my opinion, adapts the empirical knowledge from gymnastic training to swinging on the pole.

Altius (R.I.P) and I had endless discussions on the matter and our views do differ on this point.

So with respect to you and Altius I do not believe that the video supports or advocates turning the feet towards the shins (ankle-dorsiflexion).

My experiences in Formia with Petrov, Advanced Coaching Qualifications in gymnastics and practical experiences in coaching pole vault do not lead me to accept that dorsi-flexion of the feet at the ankle joint contributes in any practically significant way to inversion and covering the pole.

However, if someone can provide a convincing rationale I am open to being convinced as to the efficacy of the dorsi-flexing theory. So far no rationale has been offered.

[advath]

Here's a good strength exercise.
https://youtu.be/NfptY9HR6k4

[charlie]

Get yourself a rope and stand with your drive knee parrallel! Drive the knee up, not back and pull your hips to your TOP hand!!! We use 5# ankle weights and have no problem getting TOTALLY inverted!!! Guarenteed!

[monteo]

Charlie, I'm having trouble visualizing the exercise you recommend. Do you have a video of it?