New poles, much needed advise.

[born2fly]

Hi,

I am buying a few new poles and was hoping to get some advise on what to go for. Sorry all my measurements are European standards.

First question is whether I should go with Pacer or Spirit? I have noticed the majority of the top girls use Spirit. I used it once and find it to be quite good. It seemed easier to go into the pole, but I heard that there is less of a spring from it.

Second question:

I am 1m69 and weigh between 58.5-60kg. My full run-up is 14 steps at about 26meters and my PR is 4m.

For warm-up I use a pacer 4m63 (short distance - up to 8 steps), a 4m15/63 flex 23.0 and 4m15/66 flex 22.0.

For competitions I use Carbon Mystic pacer poles:
- Normally starting with the 4m15/68 flex 20.4 (sometimes with the 66 if I am not jumping as good as normal).
- 4m15/70 flex 19.8
- 4m25/66 flex 22.5

I have one more pole that is a 4m25/66 flex 22.0, which I have not used yet.

I have been stuck on the 415/66-70 poles for the past year and half to two years and have occassionaly used the 425/66 pole, now more so than before (finally).

The two 4m15/68 and 70 poles are not mine and I am allowed to get some new poles. So I am inbetween whether I should order both of the 68 and 70 poles, or just one and then one stronger 425/68 pole as I think since I am becoming more comfortable with the pole I should be able to go through the other 66 pretty easily (I want to be prepared).

I was informed to buy 4m15-68 MSt Carbon 20.7, 4m15-70 Mst Carbon 19.8, 4m25-68 Mst Carbon 21.4.

Third question: if I would change brand and buy Spirit what would be the corresponding poles to those of the Pacer ones?

Fourth question: would it be a better transition to be going from the 4m15/68 to directly the 4m25/66?

[dj]

hey

sent a PM if you need follow up

[PVJunkie]

I would recommend you contact Steve Rippon for advice.

I would also say that deciding between a Carbon pole and a Spirit pole is odd. Glass poles compare to each other in a reasonable way....Pacer FX vs Spirit is a comparison that can be done due to the fact they have more similarities than differences. Carbon poles take the performance and feel to a place glass only poles cannot go. Not every style of vaulting will match to carbon but if it does then you are on your way.

Question - when was the last time an elite athlete switched from a carbon pole to a non carbon and IMPROVED?

[dj]

hye

i suggest a series of Spirits..

couldn't hurt you haven't progressed in two years on what you are on...

make a change..

how old are you? where are you from?...what "skills" do you have, speed, long jump etc...

do you have a coach or need to change coaches.?. since you haven't progressed???

just thoughts..........

dj

[PVJunkie]

You said that someone advised you to get some poles (4m15-68 MSt Carbon 20.7, 4m15-70 Mst Carbon 19.8, 4m25-68 Mst Carbon 21.4). Is this someone who has seen you vault and knows your capabilities? If so listening to anyone on this board would be a mistake.

What do you NEED from the poles to progress - grip height or stiffness?
What are your complaints about the poles you are using now? Are they too heavy? On too big a mandrel?
Are you wanting to change the performance of what you have been using? You are on an aggressive pole (carbon). If the performance of the poles you have been using fits and you just want them to be more forgiving then the Pacer Mystic would be the way to go (non carbon version of the Mystic pattern - all glass pole).

[born2fly]

HI everyone, thank you for the much needed advice. I am under a coaches' guidance but for a number of reasons feel that I really need to make a pole change. I haven't that much opportunity to try a variety of poles and I am not located where a variety is available to test. So any and all comments are welcomed.

PVJunkie, my delemina is that I do know some higher level vaulters that have left carbon and returned to glass and are performing better, but like was said it depends on style and fit. Also, my question becomes why is that the the top vaulters Bubka and Isenbayeva use UCS Spirts? There must be a performance reason.

[PVJunkie]

Do your best to answer the questions and we will do our best to help. I "fit" vaulters to poles every day who do not have the luxury of brands/styles to test. Do you have any video?

Approximately half of Bubkas records were on Pacer poles. Isenbayeva has only ever vaulted on spirits, there is no way to tell if she would vault better on any other brand unless she tried. Anna Rogowska vaults on Carbon, she is the 2009 world championship gold medalist and I would guess she switched to carbon poles for some valid reasons as well.

[rainbowgirl28]

Also, my question becomes why is that the the top vaulters Bubka and Isenbayeva use UCS Spirts? There must be a performance reason.

I'm confident they could jump as high on other brands of poles as well.

[Pogo Stick]

Also, my question becomes why is that the the top vaulters Bubka and Isenbayeva use UCS Spirts? There must be a performance reason.

I'm confident they could jump as high on other brands of poles as well.

Let me also quote achtungpv (http://www.polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=110328#p110328):

Lobinger cleared 6m on Nordic, Pacer, and Spirit.

In your opinion, what are the main reasons for your stagnation? Technique, speed, strength or poles? Small improvement in speed, plant or swing can do more than any pole in the world. I would buy some used poles (all same brand and same models, doesn't matter which one) and spend the difference on clinics or additional training to fix some of the weakness. Subtle differences between pole brands and models are for 4.50+ vaulters. An old proverb from my country says something like this: "Battle is not fought by shiny weapons but by the hearts of heroes".

[dj]

hye

Lobinger cleared 6m on Nordic, Pacer, and Spirit.

the question(s) to ask would be...

How simular were the patterns?
Were they glass? if Carbon.. How much? and what was the pattern?
next compare TO, grip and height above grip on each jump..

sounds like a lot.. but all factors.. factors we proablly can't find out.

dj

[tsorenson]

Good vaulters can indeed use any type of pole to jump high. However, there are some differences between the major brands. All this has been discussed before on PVP, but here's my opinion:

-Pacer poles (both carbon and fiberglass) have a feeling of initial stiffness at the plant, followed by a rapid bend where the pole sort of "goes away", followed by a quick and snappy recoil. They seem to be good for vaulters who apply a lot of pressure into the pole at takeoff, or who have a free takeoff with a super fast swing. The pacer FX poles are durable, and a little slower than the carbons. The carbons are super light (a major advantage) but need to be cared for to avoid dings and scratches.

-Spirit poles have less initial stiffness at the plant, a round even bend, and a slightly slower recoil than pacers. Tuck/shoot vaulters may find Spirits to be a little slow compared to pacers of the same rating. Swing vaulters will enjoy the even feel of the bend through the course of the swing. Spirits are heavier than carbons but this probably doesn't matter much on shorter poles. They are very durable. Spirit poles are less useful at the HS level, by placing their mfg. ring at 6" below the top of the pole. Other than HS, you can grip them higher, which works fine.

-Altius poles are (relatively) heavy and slow, very durable, and a lot cheaper than pacer or spirit. They bend round and easily, give you plenty of time to get into position, and roll over easily. I personally like to use them, but be aware that they seem softer than sprits or pacers at the same weight rating. The carbons in the longer lengths are pretty snappy compared to their smaller glass poles. I like them because the easy feel inspires confidence. Some people say they aren't good for elite level vaulters, but I just watched a video of a HS kid clearing 17' 7 pretty easily on one (nice job Andrew and Morry!).

-Nordics seem comparable to spirits.

-Skypoles are comparable to Altius (but slightly lighter carry weight).

Hope this helps. Pick the best combination of features and value that works for your vaulting and your budget!

Tom

[dj]

hey

The pole pattern/design/brand (because of pattern) will dictate technique 90% of the time...
.....especially the pole design you begin to learn to vault on. Bubka would not be the "model" without the pole pattern he jumped on and where he gripped on that pole...

For a pole to "load" from a free takeoff/naturally according to Petrov and the model...from the transfer of the body weight the pattern has to "allow" that to happen many designs are not made that way.

And yes we have had this conversation before...

dj

some athletes want and excuse.... others become champions.....