Question about this Jan Johnson drill

[souleman]

Please go here and look at this drill.
http://www.skyjumpers.com/pages/Planting_Drills.htm
Now I understand what the drill trys to achieve as an end result. The question is, doesn't this drill also promote what I've read on several "left arm" posts as a bad technique later on in the jump? To me, in order to do this drill you have to have a stiff left arm. Stiff left arm has been considered "a bad thing" in the jump in most threads that I've read about the lower arm. It just seems to me that an excercise to achieve any technicle aspect of the event should not promote someting that later on in the jump will be detrimental. As you know, I'm somewhat clueless on most of this so explain this one to me. Later..........Mike

[Mecham]

I had a question like this , i was just too scared to ask

[AVC Coach]

I use this drill when I have kids that aren't applying any pressure with their bottom arms.

[souleman]

But I have read time and time again on this forum that we are not supposed to apply pressure on the lower arm at take off. In fact, (correct me if I'm wrong here) with the "free" or "pre-jump" take off (as in the 6.40 model) the arms are supposed to be "high and up" (be as tall) as possible which would make the lower arm push quite difficult. According to Altius and Agapit (if I read them right) coaching the lower arm push for the most part is coached in the U.S. to get vaulters to get the pole to bend rather than teach a trailing leg swing up. It just seems to me that the mechanics that it teaches contradicts what the 6.40 model guys say. ........Later.......Mike

[METAL MAN]

Maybe I can answer this one for you. I know Jan and have coached at some of his camps. He coaches pretty much from the same mold as the Petrov/Bubka 6.4 model. He encourages jumping into the plant (free take off) with the bottom arm firm but not straight in the "blocking out" position. The torso momentarily remains firm once the take off foot leaves the ground to create the reverse "C" position with the head aligned with the spine, the chest pressed ahead of the hips and under the bottom hand and the foot and trail leg behind the hips. He wants a very long line from the top hand to the take off foot with the jumper staying down and off the pole. This sets the vaulter up for the swing to vertical phase and he coaches the bottom arm to fold in on the pole as this occurs. The girls vaulting in the videos appear to be in the initial phases of their development and if you were to see them as they progressed with their skills in doing these drills that it would be more in keeping with the 6.4 model. Check out his teaching progression descriptions on his website.
www.skyjumpers.com
Hope this helps...........

[souleman]

Thanks Metal Man. I think I understand. On the other hand, another question I would have would be when would this excercise be taught to vaulter. It seems to me that if shown to a vaulter early in his or her developement stages that it could encourage a "blocking out" of the lower arm. Then after they get how to do that, then we'd have to unteach them that to have them do as you said during a regular vault. Later........Mike

[bvpv07]

my coaches have us think of it as an "upward press" and not as a "forward block"...does that help any?

[METAL MAN]

Those drills that you were watching are called "stay downs." Essentially what they do is simulate the plant and beggining swing. They are usually done from a six step (three left) run-up and the vaulter stays upright during the whole drill. The upper arm should be pressed high and the lower arm is positioned so the elbow is slightly flexed outward. This drill does not encourage blocking out, actually the opposite when done correctly. The jumper is practicing good plant mechanics and while staying upright and swings the plant leg forward past the pole as it rotates with the lower arm folding in and lands in the pit upright on the plant foot. The next progression is the swing to the L seat which is a waist hinge so the jumper lands on his/her butt in a sitting up position. From there the progression is to the swing up where the jumper swings to the vertical and lands on their back. All are done from a 3 left run up and my people do these drills every vault practice. In Beginner to Bubka there are some variations to these drills but they both pretty much do the same thing. I wouldn't let what you saw on those video clips be too much of an influence on your thinking. From what I saw the girls are probably begginers and will become much better at these drills as they continue to work with Jan.
Good luck and get back to me if you have questions...
Chris

[advath]

If you watch the video you will see the hips get shot forward past the shoulders as soon as the pole hits the back of the box in that drill. Look at the difference in the Advantage Athletics "Sand Vaulting Drill". Look at the bottom vaulter with bend in http://advantageathletics.com/2005/?page_id=110 . The difference is... in the Sand Vaulting Drill by Tim Werner and Advantage Athletics the vaulter demonstrates the hips staying under or behind the shoulders way into the vault. There is still plenty of bend. The angel at the armpit is non-existent until the top hand, shoulders, hips and trail foot are in a straight line, and that line is pointed at the box (or the foot is tapping the box). After that the vaulter rotates the top arm forward and down to keep the body upright to land in the sand or pit. Also notice the trail leg must bent to help the hips stay back. Keeping the trail leg straight would lengthen the lever working against the hips. It’s easier for the inertia to pull the long lever (straight trail leg) forward during the take off or drive phase. It is harder for inertia to force the hips forward if it is working against a short lever (or bent trail leg). See Tommy Skipper's 18' 10" vault and view for yourself how this works. http://advantageathletics.com/2005/?page_id=138

[VTechVaulter]

as far as the drill goes, the idea here is to learn to take off tall, both hands and body. Now ideally the left hand will be more over the head, but because its a short run, low grip drill, the angles will not work. From my work with jan, he actually doesn't teach locking the bottom arm, the drill is just a drill. What he wants is for you to keep space between body and pole. So if you hips get sucked out , your body goes to the pole, and therefore is no space. But if you pressure the bottom arm and drive up into it, you will have the space, and will be able to after a tall take off

[VAVAULTER]

To also go along with Brian on this one. Jan does not teach this technique to a beginner. his progression is a close grip. as the vaulter gets beter he moves the hands father apart while having the left arm bent. as the vaulter gets better then he will have them start to straighten the left hand. because you need to apply more force with your left hand as you go up in pole size and length

[souleman]

Bingo! VAVAULTER, that's what I was wonderin'. Thanks for answering. Don't get me wrong, I can see a lot of benefits from the excercise but as I have mentioned, it also appeared that learning it at the wrong "time" might cause problems that a vaulter would have to correct down the road. The more you guys post, the more I learn. If I'm ever in a position to coach it has to be imperative in my mind that, like a good doctor, "I do no harm". If you know what I mean. Later...........Mike