The free take off: key to success or giant hoax

[Robert schmitt]

hey just to chime in here, i was wondering if (to the believers in the free take off) would this be beneficial for a 11 or 12 foot vaulter to start doing to jump higher. Right now i am not using free take off, and my coaches are saying my step is always inside, unless i really focus on fixing it. But i have been thinking if i switch to free take off and get my step right, perhaps i could jump much higher. Is this true, or just for the extreme heights like 17 and better?

One person on here said that one day they PR'ed by 2 feet by accidentally using free take off, so any input would be great. thanks

-john

it is very hard to swing and time up with the pole being under no matter how high or low you are jumping.

[superpipe]

I like getting technical with vaulting technique, but sometimes it goes alittle far. The "free take-off" is a minute "pre-jump". They are the same thing. You basically take-off out slightly. At what point do you differenciate the two? If you are off the ground by an 1/8", 3" or 24" before the pole hits the back of the box, you pre-jumped/had a free take-off. It's juts a matter of how extreme.

[altius]

To FlyingD - and everyone else interested - you will always put yourself in a position to jump higher if you have a good take off, no matter how high or low you jump. A free take off implies a good take off -however it is no panacea . Unless you have a good structured run up and great pole control and plant you will not be able to master a free take off, far less a pre jump take off.

[MightyMouse]

But would jumping up into the pole well before it hits the back of the box, offer enough benefitsfor an athlete to train this slightly awkward technique? Do any elites or semi elites out there train to jump like this from the US?

[MightyMouse]

I realized now that the poll should have been do you train to use the prejump, not free take off because few athletes use a prejump effectively and even less train for it. So im creating a seprate thread with just a poll in refrence to this thread. If thats ok becca?

[rainbowgirl28]

Go for it

[altius]

MM -you must have a short memory - or perhaps it wasnt you at SRU! Pretty well all of the athletes there managed some kind of pre jump from 2/4 steps on the artificial grass and from six steps into the sandpit in minimum time. It is in fact a very natural take off movement much freer and easier than taking off under.

However as I continually restate, you must have a great run up and excellent pole control to do it from a longer run.

MM - I am beginning to suspect you are just trying to run up the number of your posts so that you can join 'she who must be obeyed' on the top of the totem pole!

[MightyMouse]

MM -you must have a short memory - or perhaps it wasnt you at SRU! Pretty well all of the athletes there managed some kind of pre jump from 2/4 steps on the artificial grass and from six steps into the sandpit in minimum time. It is in fact a very natural take off movement much freer and easier than taking off under.

However as I continually restate, you must have a great run up and excellent pole control to do it from a longer run.

MM - I am beginning to suspect you are just trying to run up the number of your posts so that you can join 'she who must be obeyed' on the top of the totem pole!

O my slander, name calling, down right libel!!

With so many versions of a teaching the vault out there, I think its sometimes better to take a more methodical approach to amending my vault technique book. For example I was a fan of the tap a few months ago. I got shot down on a thread that I tried to support it on, then a month later went to a camp that was taping every vault (SR) and saw the damage it was doing. Now I no longer ask for a tap. Although I probably pretend to be more studious about vaulting than I actually am, its easy to get caught up in a coaches new style that can hurt my performance.

Did you know Bell Athletics teaches you to plant the pole with the inside of the right arm around 6 inches to the right of the side of your head? Or that they teach you to carry with the pole as far back from your hip as comfortable? Im not saying this is better or worse than the Petrov model, but it has made several great jumpers, and is worth just as much consideration from my point of view. Same with the prejump it seems out of order, leaving the ground before impact, but it also has produced many good vaulters so should be considered as well.

Who knows the Petrov model could be the ultimate model that the Pole Vaulting gods enlightened Coach Launder with and sent him all over the world to convert new followers

MM - I am beginning to suspect you are just trying to run up the number of your posts so that you can join 'she who must be obeyed' on the top of the totem pole!

I know! It takes forever to get to the next level after Pro just kidding let me know if I get over the top though. Now that I think about it, its pretty funny that a low vaulter like me would be so obsessed with this. HA

[SlickVT]

I am disappointed this issue is still being raised and debated. Pages 148 -151 in BTB should have clarified this issue to anyone's satisfaction; Figure 23.4 shows Tarasov demonstrating what I believe to be a free take off while the photograph on the inside front cover shows Bubka using what I first termed a "pre jump' in an article published by "Modern athlete and Coach" in 1989. Finally the photo series of Wendy Young on the back cover of BTB suggests that 'ordinary' athletes can begin to use this approach to the take off.

Altius,

With all respect, you cant expect everyone on here to own a copy of your book. I have no idea what the figures and pages show.

[altius]

"the Petrov model could be the ultimate model that the Pole Vaulting gods enlightened Altius with and sent him all over the world to convert new followers".

This should solve the problem SlickVT. It looks as though there could be a copy of BTB in every hotel room before long! I just hope someone pays me for them.

However until this happens you might go to Stabhochsprung and check out the video material there -perhaps the clearest is Markov's jumping at 6.05 in Edmonton and also in Paris.

[Mecham]

However until this happens you might go to Stabhochsprung and check out the video material there -perhaps the clearest is Markov's jumping at 6.05 in Edmonton and also in Paris.

It says on stabhotch that the jump is only 5.95. If the one you are thinking of is the one you showed at the camp.

[vaultwest]

Following is my take on this whole controversy/issue.
1. Back in the 80's I remember a study that looked at the sprinting of Carl Lewis. At the time speed was defined by stride length and Cadence. The longer the stride and/or faster the cadence the faster the sprinter. But a study showed that Carl at 9.90 approximately for 100m had the same stride length and cadence as some sprinters of the same body size that had very comparable stride length and cadence but they were 10.30 sprinters. This seemed to be impossible until it was learned that Carl had a much faster ground contact time. In other words he was on the ground for a much shorter time than these other sprinters and that is why he was so much faster. Since then many training regimes and drills have been developed to help athletes gain the strength and techincal skill to perform this way to improve their speed.
2. At one time the straddle High jump was the preferred techinque, and of course it focused on power at takeoff for its success. Then along came the flop that focuses on Speed especially at takeoff(short contact time) and the event was forever changed. Not only did more (different body types) athletes now have the potential to be successfull high jumping but the over all results were much better for all levels of jumpers year in and year out.
3. Our daily life experiences with how the world works (physics) tells us that the longer you put force on an object the faster you can make it go. This is a reality that we must all overcome in running and jumping since our muscles are not only not strong enough but contract too slowly for this to be the case when we sprint or jump.

From my experience as a vaulter for over 40 years and a coach of 27 years here are some of my observations. I jumped wrong or under for the first 25 years of my vaulting. It is very hard to overcome the intuitive feeling that one must run faster and with more power to make sure that one can jump through the pole that you are carrying down the runway so that one not only clears the bar but also lands in the pit. Striding out and taking off under are the natural consequences of that mind set. Through much help from fellow vaulters and coaches I learned to change these faults and correct my sprinting and I learned to jump out and the rest is history. Not only am I still jumping at the age of 50 but I am jumping as high as I did in my sophmore year of college. Compared to taking off under, taking off out feels so good and easy one almost feels like they are cheating, the vault should not be so easy. I know that if I takeoff under My jumping will be done the body will not handle it anymore and I owe my good resultsas a fifty year old to my out takeoff.

If high jumpers were like us vaulters they would still be discussing which technical model is better, the straddle or the flop. Now for sure it is easier to see this since there is no flexible pole to get in the way or hide certain aspects of performance, but their takeoff is basically under the same performance criteria as us vaulters. But they don't constantly debate this, the issue has been settled a quick takeoff is better than a slower power takeoff i.e. the flop is better than the straddle. Now I know that some really powerfull talented athletes have vaulted well from under. They minimized the effects of this takeoff just as some High jumpers, jumped high using the straddle, but to reach our potential we need to use the best technical models with correct form. The rest of the track and field community knows how to sprint and jump correctly maybe us vaulters should tag along and quit killing ourselves at takeoff. Lets takeoff free and vault high
Vault On