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Altius got me thinking when he said of Australia's recent success, "not too shabby a performance for a country with perhaps 300 vaulters. " I realize that Altius was refering to athletes at all levels in Australia, but I had to ask myself, "How many athletes do we have seriously training in the US?"

My definition of seriously training is pretty exclusive. Here is my criteria:

1) Athletes over 18 years of age or have achieved a mark of 4m (women) 5.20m males at under 18 years.

2) Training for the vault is the primary emphasis of their lives. School or work are of course possible, but they are secondary to training.

3) They have organized their lives to be in the best training enviroment available to them i.e. best coaching, facilities, weather ect. Unless you are very very lucky these things are not available in your back yard. Most athletes will have to relocate.

There are other criteria we could examine, but I think these cover the basics of whether you are seriously training or just playing at it. Please understand, I am not saying that everyone should uproot their lives and move to Seattle/Southern CA/Jonesboro. It would not be productive for most American kids to do that; however, if you aspire to be Jeff Hartwig you can't stay in St. Louis.

So, back to my original question, "How many are out there in the US?"

My guess is around 80.

I agree with Barto in that there are not enough specific vaulters in the US scene. However, you must consider the difficulties of being an elite vaulter. How many american vaulters have contracts with nike, adidas, new balance, etc... 10? maybe 15?? it is much easier for a shoe company to market someone such as a sprinter or distance runner, and in turn they just refuse to give contracts to vaulters. without such sponsorship to be literally focused on vaulting post-collegiately, it is dificult to make pole vaulting your entire life. now, within college and high school, i agree that we still have a lack of serious committed pole vaulters... this doesn't seem to be an issue within other track events even. i believe that the only solution to this is the unavoidable increasing popularity in our event. soon enough, our sport will be popular enough to support athletes by the hundreds. hopefully...... any thoughts?

It is not the shoe companies fault. It is whether you are dedicated enough or not. period.

i love cliches

'if theres a will, theres a way'

i'm with ya barto

If no one else is going to say it I will...

Football, baseball and basketball are the culprits.

A. Those sports make track and field very unpopular in the United States, or rather, Americans only really care about these sports, and not track and field.

B. This may not be the case if the athletes that are stars in these sports were to be track athletes. (Imagine the US Olympic power if some NFL players were sprinters or vaulters).

C. This trickles down to the shoe companies who do give some pretty pitiful contracts to pole vaulters, but you have to be the best of the best to even get that. And as much as many people would love to give up work to train in the vault, its just not going to happen. You can't live off 500 dollars here and there from street and beach vaults until you put up a huge mark and get a (relatively) weak contract to keep training exclusively. Very few people reach this level, and even a good living is not guarantee then.

Granted, if you love the sport like we all do, then maybe struggling financially for a couple of years is what to do. If theres a will, theres a way.

EDIT: I didn't answer the question. I would say less, because collegiate vaulters move to better their training environment, but school HAS to come first or vaulting in college won't happen.

My vote: 40.

Well I realise that this will likely create a firestorm because again many coaches are likely to see this as a criticism of themselves - here I will simpy say - If the cap fits, try it on". That said if you read on without exploding you will realise that this is a comment on the system not individual coaches. However I am a professional in MY field and feel I have to voice an opinion on this topic even tho it is directed at the USA and it is almost certainly going to give many the chance to dump on me - plus ca change as they say in one of America's least favourite countries.

First note that, as I said in Reno last year I am an internationalist as far as vaulting, and most other things it should be said , goes -as are many of my friends including Petrov -so I want to see any athlete with the ability and desire, reach their goals. On my recent trip to the USA with six clinics, I saw at least 20 boys with prs between 4.00m and 4.60m - who working even on a part time basis for two years with a coach of the calibre of Alex Parnov or Mark Stewart would be jumping 5.00 to 5.50m. They were talented and determined - perhaps some in part because of the lure of a possible scholarship - but in my view certainly capable of the performances I suggest. Note again that having coached 11 young men between 17 and 19 to heights of 4.90 and 5.40 between 86 and 2000 - all of them working or studying - none with outstanding ability or previous gymnastics background and some with no prior track and field experience in the backwater of Adelaide, I think I am a fair judge of what can be achieved, . Note also that while Parnov is a full time professional coach- the only one in OZ -, Mark Stewart is a professor of economics at RMIT. He coached Emma george to 4.60 and a WR and Steve Hooker to 5.91 and C'wealth gold - and Steve was working full time from the time he left school - he is now training full time with Parnov so watch this space.

Someone in another post suggested that the system at high school is more social in nature - well for the lads i met it was not - they want to be good!! As good as they can be!

I suggested some time ago that there were many good vault coaches in the USA but not enough to go round the number of kids who needed them. In my view there are not enough even to fill university positions properly so even when kids get a scholarship they are often going to be let down by poor coaching. So with an almost ideal combination of facilities, training time and financial support for school many do not progress. Look at the results of this years NCAAs - and especially note the performances - or lack of - from the BIG 10!!!

So the problem is not lack of suppport for vaulters in the USA because with the college system they should be ok until they are 22 at least and by then should have put themselves into position to decide whether it is worth pursuing - as Tim Mack obviously did. In my view the problem is that not enough coaches are prepared to take THEMSELVES to the next level of understanding and performance. Your system encourages an insular, parochial view where winning the district, regional, state or ocnference meets -or at least getting points in them is enough. Not enough coaches are PREPARED in all senses of that word , to help kids really fulfill their dreams. Three years ago when I first saw a young man named Andrew Rademacher in Reno I told Steve Chappell that he was a left handed Markov - what has happened?

AS a start -and I have suggested this to the powers that be - the top ten?? boys and girls eligible for the World championships, youth or junior, in the next two years, should be invited with their coaches to be involved in a special program at Reno. Mentors for those coaches could be selected from among your outstandng coaches and progress monitored.

With the demise of the Soviet system the window has opened again for the US as recent results confirm, but still the question is, how many coaches are there CAPABLE of helping youngsters get to International level - is there no one in the St. Louis area for example? Rick Suhr has clearly managed it in the wilds of PA?? so why not everywhere?

Education is the key to everything!

Can't say I disagree on this one. There are maybe 20-25 full time coaches in the entire US who I would trust with my kid.

Barto

altius wrote:is there no one in the St. Louis area for example? Rick Suhr has clearly managed it in the wilds of PA?? so why not everywhere?

Lane Lohr is in St. Louis and Rick Suhr is in New York, not PA.

altius wrote:I suggested some time ago that there were many good vault coaches in the USA but not enough to go round the number of kids who needed them. In my view there are not enough even to fill university positions properly so even when kids get a scholarship they are often going to be let down by poor coaching. So with an almost ideal combination of facilities, training time and financial support for school many do not progress.

I agree with this.

I think you offend many on this board because they take what you say personally. The truth is, the majority of the coaches who read this board are making an effort to educate themselves. I certainly hope that this site is most useful as a means of connecting them with other knowledgeable coaches, and giving them opportunities for hands-on clinics in their area.

There are thousands of pole vault coaches in this country who make no effort to improve their coaching abilities beyond whatever minimal requirements may be in place by their state.

Most of those coaches don't come here. That would be way too much effort.

I'm not saying most of the coaches who come here are necessarily good, but they are almost always the ones who care and are trying, and the ones who want bigger things than just a league, district, or state championship.

altius wrote:Three years ago when I first saw a young man named Andrew Rademacher in Reno I told Steve Chappell that he was a left handed Markov - what has happened?

i know him!!

rainbowgirl28 wrote:I'm not saying most of the coaches who come here are necessarily good, but they are almost always the ones who care and are trying, and the ones who want bigger things than just a league, district, or state championship.

Well put.

saraf wrote:

altius wrote:Three years ago when I first saw a young man named Andrew Rademacher in Reno I told Steve Chappell that he was a left handed Markov - what has happened?

i know him!!

hes not done yet. changed coaches 3 times in 2 year, give him some time to get a groove