PoleVaultPower.com

Posted: **Sun May 03, 2009 9:03 pm**

This sounds like good news for Florida vaulters ... the more PV clubs and camps there are, the better ... I THINK. :confused:

However, I do have 4 concerns/questions that I think any vaulter joining the club or attending a David Spivey camp should ask about before he signs up:

1. What PV model is he following? (Make sure it matches the model that you want to learn.) I am NOT inferring that one model is better than another. Instead, I'm just suggesting that you find out what you're signing up for (and agree with it) BEFORE you pay.
2. Under what situations does he "tap" his athletes (if at all)? (Make sure you're comfortable with his answer to this.)
3. Does the PV Club and Vault School train in a safe environment?
4. Has David Spivey taken all the necessary PV safety training, and does he adhere to it? (What are his credentials and beliefs regarding vaulter safety?)

The last 2 questions sound like no-brainers, but I mention them because in watching recent vids of LHS vaulting, on two separate days ( a week or so apart) I noted that the pit was NOT SAFE! :no:

In these vids, David Spivey was apparently supervising the vaulters. The pads that should normally be placed on top of the standard bases were MISSING! :no:

Despite my PERSISTENT concern for his personal safety, the only explanation I got from LHS was that "the high jumpers were using those pads". :no:

This is a serious safety concern, which has not yet been resolved ... at least not to the satisfaction of what "the PVP community" would consider "acceptable".

Kirk

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2009 12:59 am**

There is another outstanding question that I have not heard back from LHS about. In this thread http://polevaultpower.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=17245&p=123786 ... on March 27 2009 ... I asked him this ...

KirkB wrote:
LHSVaulterJJR wrote: My coaches Name is David Spivey. only vaulted for about 5 years in his prime before the accident... as for the pushoff i believe he was on 16 ft poles gripping 15' 6" with a 9 inch drop in the box so the grip moves to what 14'9" so it was a 49" pushoff.

Not to quibble, but the box is 8" deep, so clearing 18-10 with his 15-6 grip would be a 4-0 pushoff. Like I said, still VERY impressive, without jacking up the numbers by another half foot.

Please also check his 18-10. Not that I don't believe you, but I can find no record of that. On google, I find him at some lower heights, just not at 18-10. Since he was apparently so close to the WR, I would have thought he would be on a list somewhere. Even if his PR was only 18-0, he should be on a list. If you can find that list, please give us the link.

... Please ask him what meet he did 18-10 in, the date, and what he placed. ... I'm not on a witch-hunt, I'm just trying to learn more about your coach. ...

And I got this reply from LHS the same day ...

LHSVaulterJJR wrote:sure .. ill ask my coach on monday about the meet he jumped it in. all the years ect. And yess dj knows him, actually i think dj and him coached a couple clinics together a while back. have the stats on monday

... however, I still have not heard back from LHS about this. :confused:

Today, I checked David Spivey's stats, and I discovered that he was ranked 65th indoors in 1982 with a 5.48 PR (17-11.75). Outdoors, his PR is 5.33 (17.5.75) in 1981, which ranked him 93rd.

Both his indoor and his outdoor marks are significantly below the 18-10 (5.74) that he apparently claims.

LHS, could you please clarify what his indoor and outdoor marks are (including the date, name, and location of the meet and who else was in it), so that we can clear this up? :confused:

Kirk

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2009 2:09 am**

I have to agree with Kirk on the stats, the highest I could find for him was also 5.48. So maybe he was exaggerating or claiming a practice jump as a PR, or maybe LHS heard wrong.

Here is an article on him from back in the day. Almost 18' is still very good

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oR ... %2C5922654

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2009 11:41 am**

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2009 2:23 pm**

LHSVaulterJJR wrote:he jumped 18 10 1/4 in a meet in texas. im not quite sure of the name but the jump occured three hours before billy olsen broke the american record. This was particularly frustrating because in jumping 18 10 1/4 spivey had set a new american record.... and 3 hours later in california olsen broke it again. So the record wasnt reported as an american record. but he has jumped the hieght

That doesn't even make any sense. Here is the progression of the American outdoor record:

5.67 Earl Bell 1976
5.70 Dave Roberts 1976
5.71 Mike Tully 1978 (not ratified)
5.72 Dan Ripley and Billy Olsen, June 1982, Knoxville, TN
5.73 Dave Volz, June 1982, Durham, NC
5.75 Brad Pursley, March 1983, Abilene, TX
5.76 Jeff Buckingham, July 1883, Lawrence, KS
5.77 Mike Tully, May 1984, Westwood (UCLA), CA
5.80 Earl Bell, June 1984, San Jose, CA

I am assuming he is talking about an outdoor mark, since there aren't many indoor tracks in Texas and California. Also, they didn't have cell phones back then. If someone broke a record in Texas, someone in California wasn't likely to hear about it within 3 hours and jump 1cm higher.

Billy Olson's outdoor bests by year:
1980: 5.67
1981: 5.60
1982: 5.72
1983: 5.70
1984: 5.54
1985: 5.70
1986: 5.50
1987: 5.80
1988: 5.72
1989: 5.60

Also, Spivey is not listed as having competed in any USA National Championships, indoors or outdoors, ever.

Look, LHS, he was obviously a great vaulter. 18' is outstanding, and it sounds like he reached the mark in a fairly short time, and had a career cut short by the accident you mentioned. His website that you listed doesn't even claim 18'10, it claims 18'.

You are young and probably don't fully appreciate that there are people out there who keep track stats religiously. I am holding in my lap a 4.5lb hardback book by Gerard Dumas that has all of the stats I listed above and a zillion others, Kirk has this book as well. If Spivey made it over an 18'10" bar, it wasn't legit for one reason or another.

It sounds like he has had some success in coaching, and I am glad you enjoy vaulting with him. Please stop claiming he jumped 18'10, you're just making him seems like a liar, which he probably isn't. Let his credentials stand on their own, they don't need any exaggeration.

The most important measure of a coach is their coaching ability, not what they did as a vaulter, so the emphasis here is being taken away from his coaching accomplishments.

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2009 5:24 pm**

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2009 5:37 pm**

vaultnaked352 wrote:http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/VelocityPoleVaultClubFlorida/

Rainbow, I went to the website and I checked it out. If you look at the performance board in the picture on the main page it says 18'6. Now look at that picture look at it really well, i think we can all agreed that it exceeds 18'10. Even though cell phones weren't perfected by that time, they still did have phones!! So a simple PHONE CALL would fix all of that. So the fact that Spivey's story was not reported is totally possible. I'm going to look into his 18'10 jump, but i do know that Spivey is friends with Mike Cotton and Dave Roberts. So if any of you really want to dig for this one, you could try and contact one of them.

There is no way to determine from looking at a picture how high the bar is, sorry. I don't put much stock in evidence like that.

Posted: **Mon May 04, 2009 6:31 pm**

Posted: **Tue May 05, 2009 12:02 pm**

LHSVaulterJJR wrote:ok well even if the picture with the sign or performance indicator for the crowd that says 18' 6" on it doesn't prove it to you there here we go here is the biography.

coach spivey was an intermediate hurdler and decathlete in high school.
first time he ever picked up a pole was at the state meet for the decathlon his sophmore year in high school. he jumped 9'6" that day. the first time ever touching a pole. the following year he also jumped 9'6".... he hadn't touched a pole between those two years. But his senior year in high school there was a pole vault coach at the state track meet that told him to do a handstand on the pole ( as if in gymnastics since he was a gymnast) he jumped 14 ft that day and it was only the 3rd day he had ever pole vaulted. two days later in the state decathlon he jumped 14'6"( we have all the newspaper articles and clippings to prove this)

he then went to sante fe community college as an intermediate hurdler in 1979. he didnt pole vault that year, but actually wound up going to pretty much the only pole vault camp in those years. it was at the university of florida. This is where he met mike cotton and david roberts. He then started training with the two of them in 1980. the year roberts was training for the olympics. He jumped 16'3 and 16 8 his freshman and sophmore year in junior college to win the junior college national championship. He then got a full ride to aurburn university. where he eventually set the sec record of 17' 11" 3/4.

in college his highest jump was 18 2 as witnesses for the jump there would be mike bozeman, and david whatson who also wound up jumping 18 10. also earl bell was at that meet as well. earl might remember it because him and spivey were standing at the edge of the runway when a jumper had asked to borrow one of spiveys poles. spivey agreed to let him use it. the meet was in the dark outdoors and in very limited light. someone actually took a motorcycle and shined the headlight into the box so that they could see it. anyways when the vaulter went to jump using spiveys pole the bar was at 18 or 18 2 and he was a good 6 inches over it. in fact bell and spivey had thought he cleared it .... but when he went to come down they saw his feet never went over the crossbar. the vaulter wound up landing in the box on his back nearly killing himself.

as for the higher jumps. spivey then began vaulting for bud light track america in 1983 when he got out of college. the picture on the home page of the site of spivey clearing 18 6 was at auburn university, at the auburn invitational. (note spivey was not in college at the time) this was in 1983 and if you look in the photos section of the website you can see a newspaper article that says "Spivey sets vault mark" this has the info and proof of the 18'6 jump in it. SO GO LOOK AT THE ARTICLE!

the 18' 10 1/4" jump took place in 1983 in tennessee at the Tom Black classic... if you cant find stats on that meet i dont know what to tell you. it was just a classic so who knows they might not have kept records of it. but the jump was made.

please check all the info i gave you with the website and proof of it .... your welcome to look up those meets and dates and try to find the results. Ide love to see them as well. Also if anyone HAS ANY videos of Coach spivey HE WOULD LOVE TO SEE THEM he only has one video of himself and that on a vcr pole vault training video. and it was of him clearing 18ft.

If you want more than just an "ignorant 16 year old's story" then please feel free to contact TERRY LONG HE WAS THE HEAD TRACK COACH OF BUD LIGHT TRACK AMERICA IN 1983.mike bozeman, mike cotton, david roberts( might know of the mark), david whatson, maybe even earl bell and gregg duplantis, although im not sure if those two would remember the specific jumps.

anything else?

Please contact the homepage of our site or send me a message if anyones interested in summer practices, camps, joining the club ect. please note that spivey did all of this between 1979 and 1983 .... a four year career that ended with a rifle accident. it is amazing and mind boggling that anyone can learn to jump 18 10 in a matter of 4 years! so obviously david spivey would know all the drills and coaching techniques as well as other necessary key points to make any up coming athlete jump higher. Cant wait to see you guys out there!

LHS, I appreciate you trying to clear this up. We all are, and it's just as much for your benefit (and Coach Spivey's) as for ours. :yes:

First, thanks for the assurance that the vault club and camp will be "safe" and the pads will be over the standards. :yes:

After your explanation above, there's still some confusion. I had talked to Dave Roberts about David Spivey on March 28, and here's what he said (which I posted in another thread of yours) ...

kirkb wrote:DR had nothing but good things to say about DS ... "great athlete" ... "great potential" ... and "would probably be an excellent coach".

He went on to say that he lost touch with DS, and was not aware if he made ... or didn't make ... any jumps higher than 18-0 (I'm paraphrasing). If DS had made 18-10.25, then it seems suprising that it's not a well-known fact. :confused:

And I believe that RG documented quite well the implausibility of him making that height. It just doesn't add up.

The important thing tho ... is that DR thought DS "would be an excellent coach".

I agree with RG that 18-0 is a great jump, and if "that's all" he jumped then that doesn't diminish his skills as a coach.

But his credibility is being questioned, so this does need to be resolved - one way or the other.

I agree that the height shown on the performance board in the picture says 18-6. I also agree that he has good hip height over it. What I cannot agree with you on is that he cleared this bar. To me, it looks like he's coming down on it. Part of the reason I say that is that his arms are nowhere near the pole. He's already pulled them both up ... and obviously, the picture shows that he's piked over the bar. This looks like a miss to me.

The anectdotal evidence that you've provided, including the fact that the meet was in Auburn is helpful. I'll try to trace if from there. Also, the people you mentioned that were at the meet (or associated with DS) might be helpful too, if they're on PVP and can recall anything.

While the information that you provided above is "helpful", it's still just you saying what DS told you. The best we've seen from an unbiased source is the newspaper article that RG posted. But even that isn't fully reliable ... newspapers only print what they're told ... and often get it wrong. It does say that DS cleared 18-4 in practice, but was that over a bungee, 4th attempt, hip-height only (like the 18-6 pic), a figment of DS's imagination, or what?

I cannot find any other links off the home page that you showed us. Please provide the other links you're talking about.

Stay tuned, as there's lots of old geezers like me surfing PVP, and one of us will recall something ... sooner or later.

Kirk

Posted: **Tue May 05, 2009 12:32 pm**

PoleVaultPower.com

.

.

.

Re: David Spivey's Velocity Pole Vault Club and Vault School

Re: David Spivey's Velocity Pole Vault Club and Vault School

Re: David Spivey's Velocity Pole Vault Club and Vault School

.

Re: David Spivey's Velocity Pole Vault Club and Vault School

.

Re: David Spivey's Velocity Pole Vault Club and Vault School

.

Re: David Spivey's Velocity Pole Vault Club and Vault School

.