What does everyone think the new format?

[Cpvault]

Not to be rude cpvault, but you you seem to be coming across close minded about this topic. I cannot say that I know which system I prefer, cause you have made some good points, as well as others have, and because of this I cannot for sure decide where I stand until i've been more directly involved with it. I'm just curious, why dont people each make a list of pro's and cons for either system. I feel this might help express ideas a little more clearly so that as a group, we might either be able to come up with some form of consensus (highly doubtful, lol), or possibly create some new ideas, based off the pro's of both....just a thought, not trying to attack anyone

I agree, maybe we need a thread with alternative ideas for the system. As far as close minded, I just don't see it that way. Basically, I recognize the good aspects associated with the regional system (mentioned in earlier posts). On the other hand, I also see the bad and because of that have formed an opinion contrary to almost everybody involved with this thread. The reason it may seem close minded to you is the fact I suggested a somewhat alternate system (smaller fields) that is totally contrary to the regional system, but, the key is I'm sticking with my argument in the face of much disagreement. Although, please look at the other side of the coin; the hoards of people on the other side of the issue are doing the same thing (the difference is my opinion seems harsh and is very unpopular to the majority; but, in no way different from the opposition). As you can see, I feel your comment is unfair, but not rude. Don't worry, I don't take this stuff personally that's the great thing about living in the US; everyone can speak their opinions.

[Cpvault]

My contention is: why should a 16'-5" to 17'2"ish jumper deserve to go to NCAA's? What have they done during the season to warrant the opportunity to go to NCAA's. why does the 5.20 pr guy (who had a full season to jump just like everyone else) deserve the opportunity?

Because those are the guys who stepped up and made it count when it mattered. The NCAA champion isn't decided by how you jumped over the course of the season, it is decided by how you jump at a single meet. The vault is about competition and who was the best vaulter on that particular day. Look at the results from indoor NC's last year: in a field of 16, 4 guys jump 5.20 and 4 guys NH. Maybe they did not deserve to be there since they couldn't clear anything more than 5.20....

Track and field is competition based, not mark based. The new system encourages competition and consistency in our athletes. There are still ways for the "elite" vaulter to get in if he has a bad day. Do i think the 5.20 vaulter deserves to be a NCs by stepping up and jumping well enough to place in the top 4 at the regional? Absolutely!

That's unfortunate you see it that way. Maybe we should just get rid of the NCAA meet althogether, and just have one big pole vault summit at the end of year. That way, everybody can have a chance to vault and we'll have parties too. Sounds fun!!!

[rainbowgirl28]

there are enough schools (and athletes) jumping on the short pegs that when they get to a meet and the long pegs are there it would be highly likely that that site would be turned in to the NCAA and all marks set there challenged.

You're dreaming!

[PVJunkie]

You're dreaming!

It happened 3 times last year................the committee was just wishy washy about how to respond. This yr they made the decision to disallow any marks set on the long pegs..............had they made that choice last yr several qual marks would have been thrown out.

My dreams may be reality.................hehehehe

[rainbowgirl28]

You're dreaming!

It happened 3 times last year................the committee was just wishy washy about how to respond. This yr they made the decision to disallow any marks set on the long pegs..............had they made that choice last yr several qual marks would have been thrown out.

My dreams may be reality.................hehehehe

Only 3 times? Too bad there were way more than 3 meets with illegal pegs/crossbar ends

[Skyin' Brian]

You still have to make a qualifying standard (considered elite anywhere in the world) to make the US nationals or Olympic games. Again, you can't compare track and field to other sports with regard to a playoff system. Like it or not, track (especially pole vault) is about the marks. The regional qualifying marks are so low that the potential is there to have people get into the NCAA's who jump 16'5". Does anyone see a problem with that? Or, have you guys not been around the pole vault long enough to realize that 16'5" in Divsion 1 is an average mark? When did the NCAA's become an average meet.
I agree with you Erica, the argument is tiring. It seems many of you pro-regional people are so blinded by the notion that just about any vaulter in Divison 1 track deserves to go to NCAA's.

the point here is that the so called elite vaulters need to perform well in regoinals. what good is jumping high once if you cant back it up. the best vaulter should have little trouble getting through the regioal system. sure everyone screws up occasionally, but that could happen at nationals as well. a 17' pr may be closer to average in d1, but on any given day that may be a decent mark. so if the elite vaulter fails in regionals and someone else does well it isnt the system that failed, it is the vaulter that didnt advance.

Actually, that's not the point at all (at least as far my argument goes). I don't care if somebody was a one-time-charlie and makes it to NCAA's. Yeah, it occasionally happens. My contention is: why should a 16'-5" to 17'2"ish jumper deserve to go to NCAA's? What have they done during the season to warrant the opportunity to go to NCAA's. At least the one time guy jumped a decent height (even though it maybe once). I don't care that the Elite Guys get in anyway via an at-large bid; why does the 5.20 pr guy (who had a full season to jump just like everyone else) deserve the opportunity? Last time I checked this wasn't Little League Baseball, where everybody gets to play.

to answer your question: the 520 jumper gets to go to nationals because he beat the pants off of the "elite" vaulter at the regional meet. if his regional was too tough, that is not necessarily the fault of the system(although maybe it is) it just means that the region is weak, but at least it will be represented at nationals and then maybe can jerrymander the regions better so they are more evenly distributed.
i guess ideally everyone would jump their best at regionals and what you think of as the best athletes will keep the average vaulter from getting in, but if the elite dont perform and the average "joe" does, it is a problem with the way that the elite vaulter prepared for the meet.
also, just because one or two guys get in who have lower pr's shouldnt taint the experience for all of the deserving qualifiers

[rainbowgirl28]

if his regional was too tough, that is not necessarily the fault of the system(although maybe it is) it just means that the region is weak, but at least it will be represented at nationals and then maybe can jerrymander the regions better so they are more evenly distributed.

The regions will never be equal in every event. You can't jerrymander them to be equal in the pole vault because it would make them way off in the sprints or the throws.

[PVJunkie]

Only 3 times? Too bad there were way more than 3 meets with illegal pegs/crossbar ends

My point exactly!!!

[rainbowgirl28]

Only 3 times? Too bad there were way more than 3 meets with illegal pegs/crossbar ends

My point exactly!!!

Well I don't think the problem is magically going to disappear this year. I think that most officials and coaches will not report it.